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Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

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Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#261

Post by coliveira »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #260
coliveira wrote: post #259

Banning an app is the typical move of an authoritarian regime. A democratic regime would first create laws to regulate Tiktok as well as domestic social networks. Of course, the authoritarian tactic is defended by American companies for two reasons: killing outside competition (in the name of patriotism) and at the same time avoiding the necessary regulation.

American companies aren’t supportive of this. Also, the USA doesn’t give the president unchecked power, which is why this injunction simply shuts the ban down until the government can prove in court that it is legal. An authoritarian regime would have no concept of independent judicial review.

The American democracy didn't respond to the authoritarian plans other than hoping that the judicial system will do its work. This is too little too late, especially when republicans are in a frenzy run to shape judicial benches all over the country. The democratic answer, as I mentioned above, would be for Congress to introduce proper legislation to answer to this new situation where a foreign company operates a social network.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#262

Post by godelski »

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #246
solaarphunk wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I need it to conduct business, and that's more important to me than posting or discussing controversial topics. People in China literally do not use email, so this is the only effective method to get things done (which I'm totally ok with!). This ban would be an absolute disaster for me, given that my entire rolodex are WeChat contacts, not email addresses. I also feel for my friends who have family in China, and…

The average American has no idea how disruptive this is to the Chinese American community; as you stated they basically do not use email, and this is essentially the only way to communicate to friends and family in China. I know a lot of older Chinese Americans who were freaking out for weeks because banning this app would essentially cut them off with no clear alternatives. As to the censorship point, from my experi…

If you willingly talk about other politics but not your own, that does seem to be a bit of self-censorship. I mean in that case it does demonstrate that they aren't just avoiding politics in general (out of lack of interest). That or turning a blind eye, but that may or may not be meaningfully different.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#263

Post by star-trek-fleet »

tatrajim wrote: post #123

Honest question for Chinese users of WeChat: have you ever thought twice about WeChat posts and communications, whether they'll be deemed "acceptable" to censors? Everyone I know self-censors nearly constantly, if unconsciously. A good example: in a discussion of this case I was reading today in Chinese the author ironically noted that he couldn't summarize the US government's position because in a large WeChat group…

I never discuss political issues on wechat.

On the one hand, I am risking causing the group I am a member of to be banned, or my personal data being locked out from myself.

On the other hand, my friends are mostly higher class of the society that naturally align with the government, just like elite capitalists like neoliberal doctrine. The discussion seldom ends in pleasant outcomes.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#264

Post by tehjoker »

annexrichmond wrote: post #102

I think it's easy to say the ban doesn't make sense when it is perhaps a preventative measure. We have seen social networks take over others many times in terms of popularity. If TikTok and WeChat's usage becomes more widespread in the voting population of the US, they would have a lot of influence by controlling what kind of content its users sees; e.g., FB has been criticized many times for this, namely performing…

This is 100% the US foreign policy community saying we want 100% control over what US persons see. They've been waging a similar assault on RT. If you think Google, Facebook, et al aren't deeply intertwined with the US state and consult regularly with the pentagon, you haven't been watching the news.

Believe it or not, US foreign policy people put out enormous amounts of propaganda and they got the US to repeal a ban on importing news from state regime change news like Radio Free Europe in 2012.

Personally, I am suspicious of all of these corporations, but I'd rather all of them be allowed than the USG be able to dictate who is allowed to say what. That always works out so well. Foreign government news agencies and companies are much more likely to criticize the (obviously insane) USG on grounds that fundamentally disagree with policy direction rather than the tactical disagreement you find in the US mainstream press.

There's a very good (but LONG) documentary you can watch about the FP community called "A Very Heavy Agenda". Part 2 covers how the US FP community responded to the Ukraine presidential election crisis and Russian interference in 2014-2015. https://averyheavyagenda.com/

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#265

Post by godelski »

amelius wrote: post #115
aphextron wrote: post #42

From the beginning of this I never understood how there could be any legal basis whatsoever for the ban. Apparently that's because there was none.

If China can block Facebook, Google, etc., then why can't the US block Chinese apps?

While I don't agree with surveillance capitalism, this does not seem the way to win while maintaining the moral high ground? Why not something like GDPR and more transparency.It may end up accomplishing the same thing, while providing more protection to US (and world) citizens. We don't have to stoop to their levels, we're trying to avoid authoritarianism, not fight fire with fire.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#266

Post by Taniwha »

I hang out on WeChat with a bunch of mostly western hardware hackers from all over the world who visit Shenzhen regularly .... the irony that in Trump's America you will soon need an illegal VPN to access some services, just like in China, has not escaped us

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#267

Post by codedokode »

propogandist wrote: post #222
annexrichmond wrote: post #102

I think it's easy to say the ban doesn't make sense when it is perhaps a preventative measure. We have seen social networks take over others many times in terms of popularity. If TikTok and WeChat's usage becomes more widespread in the voting population of the US, they would have a lot of influence by controlling what kind of content its users sees; e.g., FB has been criticized many times for this, namely performing…

>The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities. to some degree? No, they are completely controlled by China. > "WeChatApp spies on the content that all users send to each other, including Americans. The results are fed into their censorship of Chinese users" [1] - Key findings rom the Citizen lab researc…

And at the same time FB/Google/Twitter are controlled by US government. If they do something "wrong", they get called to Congress to talk and change their mind. This is not what a truly independent company would do. Truly independent company would tell Congress to mind their own business and not bother them.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#268

Post by yibg »

amelius wrote: post #115
aphextron wrote: post #42

From the beginning of this I never understood how there could be any legal basis whatsoever for the ban. Apparently that's because there was none.

If China can block Facebook, Google, etc., then why can't the US block Chinese apps?

Because "we can do it because some other country does it" is not a good thing. China can, and has arrested US citizens without due process, should we now be able to arbitrarily detain Chinese citizens in retaliation?

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#269

Post by borg_ »

annexrichmond wrote: post #102

I think it's easy to say the ban doesn't make sense when it is perhaps a preventative measure. We have seen social networks take over others many times in terms of popularity. If TikTok and WeChat's usage becomes more widespread in the voting population of the US, they would have a lot of influence by controlling what kind of content its users sees; e.g., FB has been criticized many times for this, namely performing…

> The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities.

The irony is that we were just about to witness US govt forcing said "private entities" to ban specific applications.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#270

Post by therealx »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #50
hutzlibu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger lies in letting a foreign government controll the communication of americans. But for me as a german, I actually neither want the chinese, nor the US-government (nor the german government) to controll my communication.

It's an app for crying out loud. No one is "controlling communication of Americans" through an app.

Maybe not, but manipulating emotions is proven to have happened, and that seems pretty dangerous. Then it's the next mental hop to having the gov push their agenda that way.
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