Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#161

Post by ipsocannibal » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

Dahoon wrote: post #129

annexrichmond wrote: post #102

I think it's easy to say the ban doesn't make sense when it is perhaps a preventative measure. We have seen social networks take over others many times in terms of popularity. If TikTok and WeChat's usage becomes more widespread in the voting population of the US, they would have a lot of influence by controlling what kind of content its users sees; e.g., FB has been criticized many times for this, namely performing…

>The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities. How is for example Facebook better because it isn't somehow tied in to the US government? On the one hand the state still have access to all the data from Facebook it wants (NSA, warrants) but on the other they have a hard time protecting its users privacy…

I think loss of control is the 'quiet part' that you've hit on in this issue. Political regimes from Latin America, the Philippines, Myanmar, have used US based social media products to organize and incite harassment and violence against critics and minority groups. This is a lucrative and powerful racket that the current US administration is leveraging in a similar way and at Chinese expense. But if US eyeballs move to a platform owned by China you can envision them turning off the attention tap to vested and opposing US interests.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#162

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

Dahoon wrote: post #129

annexrichmond wrote: post #102

I think it's easy to say the ban doesn't make sense when it is perhaps a preventative measure. We have seen social networks take over others many times in terms of popularity. If TikTok and WeChat's usage becomes more widespread in the voting population of the US, they would have a lot of influence by controlling what kind of content its users sees; e.g., FB has been criticized many times for this, namely performing…

>The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities. How is for example Facebook better because it isn't somehow tied in to the US government? On the one hand the state still have access to all the data from Facebook it wants (NSA, warrants) but on the other they have a hard time protecting its users privacy…

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#163

Post by lowiqengineer » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

phasnox wrote: post #63

aphextron wrote: post #42

From the beginning of this I never understood how there could be any legal basis whatsoever for the ban. Apparently that's because there was none.

This looks more like retaliation, because China bans american companies all the time, for much less and for much more despotic reasons.

It’s almost as though it’s the First nation conceived in Liberty shouldn’t take its cues from a despotic regime?

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#164

Post by microtherion » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

tatrajim wrote: post #86

wombatmobile wrote: post #16

When trying to understand China's commercial policies which America is supposedly retaliating against, consider that China has experienced a different mercantile history to America. America has never been invaded by foreign gunships and forced to allow foreign merchants to import opium to addict its citizens in order to fix their own countries balance of payments problems. Opium Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opi…

How long is China going to put on the mantle of victimhood over events 160 years in the past?! By that standard surely Korea can complain endlessly about China and Yuan Shikai lording it over their kingdom in the 1880s, and the Czechs can cry over their subjugation for centuries by Austria-Hungary, etc. etc. In 1949 Mao Zedong famously declared "China has stood up." Apparently though he meant, "We're such a weak peop…

> the mantle of victimhood over events 160 years in the past?!

Yeah, it's absurd. It's like if somebody would appeal to the memory of the Battle of the Alamo.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#165

Post by bigpumpkin » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

wombatmobile wrote: post #16

When trying to understand China's commercial policies which America is supposedly retaliating against, consider that China has experienced a different mercantile history to America. America has never been invaded by foreign gunships and forced to allow foreign merchants to import opium to addict its citizens in order to fix their own countries balance of payments problems. Opium Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opi…

China doesn't justify its trade restrictions based on its experience in the Opium wars.

Rather, it justifies it by saying that 1) it's communist and 2) a developing country.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#166

Post by mrtksn » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

annexrichmond wrote: post #160

mrtksn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The difference between TikTok and WeChat and FB/Google/Twitter is obvious: the former are to some degree controlled by China and the latter are private entities. It is documented fact that FB, Google and the rest are tapped by US intelligence agencies. Anyone remembers Snowden? We know for fact that pretty much every single global US network works with the US government, but when comes to TikTok and WeChat something…

Ok I might've been a little unclear because I received a couple replies now about privacy and that wasn't really my point, so apologies for that. This is what I said to other person: -- > Yeah these are real problems, I agree. And US citizens should continue to put pressure on their politicians to pass more privacy-related legislation > But my point wasn't really about data collection, it was about influence and cont…

They can be subject to US laws like US companies being subject to EU laws. That's what I mean by "I wish US choose to be more like the EU instead of China".

US can regulate the internet companies to mitigate the risk when keeping the global community intact. Make foreign services run on US servers when serving US citizens, make them disclose what and how they process the data. Then if they don't obey the laws can be enforced to obey the laws. Which law TikTok broke? There is no law forbidding being Chinese and successful, that's the US political system failing to have what they want and embracing Chinese ways of doing things. It could be also a failure of the US market to stay competitive due to monopolies, giving lead to China in innovation.

But somehow the freedom loving Americans cannot be told to wear a mask but can be told which app the can use, just like in China. It's mind boggling.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#167

Post by 12xo » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #83

12xo wrote: post #26

By far the most egregious overreach of Federal authority in recent memory. Noting about this is reasonable. Its 100% the act of a desperate and weak minded despot who knows nothing about technology but acts out of ignorance and pettiness. A truly illegal and Anti-American act.

If you read the Executive Order ( https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... ) you'll see that this is yet another aspect of Trump's overall policy of confronting China's growing influence. You may disagree with that policy but I think it is a mistake to attribute these actions to "ignorance and pettiness".

In this case its hard not to... These two entities, not the thousands of other Chinese and foreign entities that do business in our country, are being targeted by what is effectively an authoritarian action. There is no national security issue here, at least none that has been disclosed nor processed by our national security teams or Congressional members. Instead, it - like most of Trump's actions, are done for personal gain and spite. And as a result is the most overreaching act by any POTUS in modern history.

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#168

Post by wombatmobile » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

srtjstjsj wrote: post #126

wombatmobile wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China fought a land war against a coalition of invaders who attempted to subvert its economic, political and religious sovereignty. China lost, was forced to cede Hong Kong to the British for 99 years, and paid 668,661,220 taels of silver from 1901 to 1939, equivalent in 2010 to $US 61 billion on a purchasing power parity basis. A large portion of the reparations paid to the United States was diverted to pay for the…

Fascinating but doesn't seem relevant to the topic at hand. The China of that history has been displaced by an undemocratic revolutionary regime that conquered the Chinese people.

Are you sure you have your timeline straight, srtjstsj? When were the Chinese people "conquered"?

Tsinghua University is a world leader in AI and software technology.

Chinese engineers and entrepreneurs are competing in world markets with innovative products and services, not gunships. 100 million American users of TikTok appreciate this.

Have you considered the possibility that China is not trying to take over the world, but rather to be a part of it?

https://uwaterloo.ca/tsinghua-uwaterloo-joint-research-centr...

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#169

Post by kolanos » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #121

kolanos wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American colonies were subject to mercantilism for 170 years before the American Revolution started. To suggest that the American colonies weren't subject to foreign gunships forcing trade policies upon them is simply a ridiculous statement. The American colonies were prevented, by force, from trading with the French, Spanish and Dutch. The British Empire captured New Amsterdam in 1664 in the Second Anglo-Dutch W…

While there was always some fear of foreign war, it never rose to the level of century-long occupation or and domination that China experienced. The American colonies were just too unimportant until the French and Indian War compared to the Sugar colonies. Even taking New York was kind of a side effect of New England being nearby and English gradually settling down from Connecticut, rather than part of some grand str…

One of the provisions of the Treaty of Nanking is that the British Empire agreed to not interfere with Chinese trade with other foreign powers. They also withdrew from mainland China in exchange for the island of Hong Kong. Hong Kong was not an economic power at the time and became one as a British colony. [0]

By contrast, the British Empire continued to interfere with American trade long after the American Revolution, prompting the War of 1812 where the British Empire burned the first White House to the ground. Imagine if the British had burned the Daoguang Emperor's palace to the ground?

My point is I'm not belittling the subjugation of the Chinese under the British Empire. But at the same time, lets not attempt to rewrite American history. In regards to the British Empire, the Americans and Chinese have more in common than propagandists on both sides would have us believe.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nanking#Terms

Re: Trump’s WeChat curbs halted by judge on free speech concerns

#170

Post by lowiqengineer » Sun, Sep 20, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

gwright wrote: post #83

12xo wrote: post #26

By far the most egregious overreach of Federal authority in recent memory. Noting about this is reasonable. Its 100% the act of a desperate and weak minded despot who knows nothing about technology but acts out of ignorance and pettiness. A truly illegal and Anti-American act.

If you read the Executive Order ( https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... ) you'll see that this is yet another aspect of Trump's overall policy of confronting China's growing influence. You may disagree with that policy but I think it is a mistake to attribute these actions to "ignorance and pettiness".

Ignorance and pettiness describes this administration quite succinctly I think