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Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

oracle.com

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Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#21

Post by jszymborski »

Irishsteve wrote: post #3

Top point talks about targeting data scientists. It would be interesting seeing what that means in their mind. Based on the current state of affairs oracle and the jvm seem very far away from mainstream ML

There's a lot of enterprise data science being done with Java/Scala and the Hadoop/Spark ecosystem.

MXNet also makes deep learning a first-class citizen in Java, but yes the research community is firmly entrenched in Python atm.

I see JDK languages as being in a decent spot for deploying ML/DL, and maybe an "emerging" language for training DL models.

Folks like Jeremy Howard have increasingly been expressing growing pains with Python and TensorFlow has been looking for something with a better type system like Swift.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say that Python is likely going to be sharing the ecosystem with a language with a better type system and performance like Julia or something on the JDK.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#22

Post by pkulak »

yagodragon wrote: post #12

Java might be the most successful programming language. It is a solid choice among many different fields. It is used on huge infrastructure projects (Apache Foundation), governments, big tech companies such as amazon, ibm, google, apple for many large scale services. It can do web, ml, GUIs, it's still strong among academics. On top of that it offers a great programming experience with excellent IDE support and it's…

I think it's the JVM that's the real win for Java. At my work we have a mix of Java, Kotlin and Scala and they all Just Work in our deployment pipeline that was built with just Java in mind.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#23

Post by itronitron »

Irishsteve wrote: post #3

Top point talks about targeting data scientists. It would be interesting seeing what that means in their mind. Based on the current state of affairs oracle and the jvm seem very far away from mainstream ML

A lot of that territory is well worn by various Java libraries. Not a lot of money to be made so Oracle is probably better off not bothering with anything ML or data science related, nothing here to see that would interest them in any way, nope.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#24

Post by soco »

Unrelated to the real topic at hand: I find telling that an antiquated software company is choosing to publish stuff as PDF. I usually refuse to open such links - my personal choice of course - because I can't see any valid reason to use it in this context. Yeah PDF for printed forms, but anything else makes no sense to me, yet it's way more used that I could imagine.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#25

Post by itronitron »

dunefox wrote: post #13
Irishsteve wrote: post #3

Top point talks about targeting data scientists. It would be interesting seeing what that means in their mind. Based on the current state of affairs oracle and the jvm seem very far away from mainstream ML

Nobody in their right mind would choose Java for anything ML-related.

Can you elaborate on why you feel that way?

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#26

Post by dcminter »

lchengify wrote: post #17
mxschumacher wrote: post #2

Slightly tangential, but due to a new job I'll have bite the bullet and learn Java. When googling tutorials, I see the same material I found 12 years ago. A lot must have happened since then. What's a good resource to learn Java for somebody who already knows how to program? I'm interested in ecosystem, tooling, best practices, common pitfalls etc.

Other than Effective Java, I recommend looking at some of the Google libraries, specifically Guava [1] and Guice [2] for dependency injection. Java is fundamentally a slow adopter of new techniques (it just got lambdas in JDK 8), but a lot of the Google libraries fill in the gaps. Note that if you are learning Java for Android development, that's a whole different sub-discipline. In that case I recommend the Android…

Broadly I agree, but JDK 8 was released in 2014, so while Java is certainly conservative you're overplaying it there.

The relatively recent adoption of the 6 monthly release cadence is helping a lot - particularly with the small feature additions that used to get stuck behind the release train.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#27

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

yagodragon wrote: post #12

Java might be the most successful programming language. It is a solid choice among many different fields. It is used on huge infrastructure projects (Apache Foundation), governments, big tech companies such as amazon, ibm, google, apple for many large scale services. It can do web, ml, GUIs, it's still strong among academics. On top of that it offers a great programming experience with excellent IDE support and it's…

It's very widely used, that's for sure. But it's increasingly not a good choice - in the examples you give - web, ML, GUIs, it is not first class in any of those (and not near to it in the latter two).

What's next for Java should be relatively little change; let a language like Kotlin without all the baggage be the way ahead on the JVM. There's a remarkably good compatibility story there; way better than basically any other language ecosystem out there, that's the real legacy of Java.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#28

Post by TheUndead96 »

I'm surprised that GraalVM is not mentioned. I have strong suspicions that Oracle is lining up Graal to become the next default JVM, after watching some talks from core developers describing how fragile the Hotspot codebase has become. Graal would be a good way to encourage ML, given it has language support for Python. Perhaps Graal is just not ready for Oracle to show all of their cards at this point. Or perhaps my theory is incorrect.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#29

Post by rzwitserloot »

lchengify wrote: post #17
mxschumacher wrote: post #2

Slightly tangential, but due to a new job I'll have bite the bullet and learn Java. When googling tutorials, I see the same material I found 12 years ago. A lot must have happened since then. What's a good resource to learn Java for somebody who already knows how to program? I'm interested in ecosystem, tooling, best practices, common pitfalls etc.

Other than Effective Java, I recommend looking at some of the Google libraries, specifically Guava [1] and Guice [2] for dependency injection. Java is fundamentally a slow adopter of new techniques (it just got lambdas in JDK 8), but a lot of the Google libraries fill in the gaps. Note that if you are learning Java for Android development, that's a whole different sub-discipline. In that case I recommend the Android…

> (it just got lambdas in JDK 8)

Interesting use of the word 'just'. At the risk of making readers feel old... Java 8 was released _6 and a half years ago_.

Re: Java Turns 25 – Whats Next? [pdf]

#30

Post by ako »

lchengify wrote: post #17
mxschumacher wrote: post #2

Slightly tangential, but due to a new job I'll have bite the bullet and learn Java. When googling tutorials, I see the same material I found 12 years ago. A lot must have happened since then. What's a good resource to learn Java for somebody who already knows how to program? I'm interested in ecosystem, tooling, best practices, common pitfalls etc.

Other than Effective Java, I recommend looking at some of the Google libraries, specifically Guava [1] and Guice [2] for dependency injection. Java is fundamentally a slow adopter of new techniques (it just got lambdas in JDK 8), but a lot of the Google libraries fill in the gaps. Note that if you are learning Java for Android development, that's a whole different sub-discipline. In that case I recommend the Android…

JDK 8 was released march 2014, so "just got lambdas" should be read as over 6 years ago...
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