Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get. It might as well as deriving particle theory from of Aristotle four base elements. Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious.
A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
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Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#32i think people read the “zombie” comparison as metaphor; IME, it’s pretty literally accurate.
the realization that snapped me out of it cold turkey was that my twitter “self” —- cultivated outside of my body, for an environment of pure text —- had accumulated far more status, meaning, friendship, etc than my physical self possibly could; and why wouldn’t it? the internet has no friction in comparison.
so that weird external GPT-3-esque “self” quite literally reached primacy within me, with a huge margin over the original one unlucky enough to be constrained by physical reality & trained via physical human interaction: and as a result i was genuinely zombie-like for a while.
perpetually a disoriented visitor to physical reality, to the people actually around me — only at home in text. and it was probably clear to anyone who knew me in person well.
maybe annoyingly mystical for HN’s taste, but when this clicked for me, it felt like discovering i’d been possessed by a demon.
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#33Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get. It might as well as deriving particle theory from of Aristotle four base elements. Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious.
The author talks about the good of social media as such:
> street uprising of the late spring felt like its joyous opposite—a future in which platforms were responding to and being structured by the events on the ground, rather than those events being structured by and shaped to the demands of the platforms. This was something worth our time and devotion... As people in the streets toppled statues and fought police...
And talks about the perils and evils of social media as such:
> promoting people who exist only to be explained to, people to whom the world has been created anew every morning, people for whom every settled sociological, scientific, and political argument of modernity must be rehashed, rewritten, and re-accounted, this time with their participation. These people, with their just-asking questions and vapid open letters, are dullards and bores, pettifoggers and casuists, cowards and dissemblers... That we get some kind of fulfillment from tedious debates about “free speech” and “cancel culture.” ... why not spend a few decades of it with a couple New York Times op-ed columnists, rebuilding all of Western thought from first principles?
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#34> "online celebrity is only ever 240 characters away from online infamy" Horace, about 2'000 years ago, suggests a (long to modern eyes) embargo[1]: > "You will have it in your power to blot out what you have not made public: a word once sent abroad can never return." cautions against seeking internet points from astroturfers[2]: > "As those who mourn at funerals for pay, do and say more than those that are afflicted…
From [3] >I shall wonder if with his wealth he can distinguish a true friend from a false one The state of social media?! A thousand "followers" but none that can be called on in times of need.
in the attention economy the followers aren't friends, they are consumers.
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#35And correct: the telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch I'm not sure how to parse this. What does it mean for something to have kitsch as its ultimate aim, or for an economy to have an aim? I think I understand what the author is getting at, which is that exciting the lizard brain in humans is easy to do by creating artificial fears and enemies, and that it takes very little effort to construct this "art".…
When to this ease of consumption is added kitsch's ease of production because of its standardized nature, its prolific growth is easy to understand. It threatens High Culture by its sheer pervasiveness, its brutal, overwhelming quantity. The upper classes, who begin by using it to make money from the crude tastes of the masses and to dominate them politically, end by finding their own culture attacked and even threatened with destruction by the instrument they have thoughtlessly employed. (The same irony may be observed in modern politics, where most swords seem to have two edges; thus Nazism began as a tool of the big bourgeoisie and the army Junkers but ended by using them as its tools.)
https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2008/ESB032/um/5136660/MacDon...
(The link is stronger than evident in this passage though most of the connections are more verbose than merits quoting here.)
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#36If he was Nigerian instead of Central European people would have probably burned him alive for insanity.
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#37Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get. It might as well as deriving particle theory from of Aristotle four base elements. Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious.
While I did not find this article particularly deep, psychoanalysis has hardly been discredited. The core of the theory has been infused into almost every psychological modality practiced today aside from CBT, and studies have shown its general efficacy as a practice to be on par with others and in some cases superior. For the past 20 or so years, the field of neuropsychoanalysis under Mark Solms et al. has done a lo…
In 2015, psychoanalyst Bradley Peterson, who is also a child psychiatrist and director of the Institute for the Developing Mind at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, said: "I think most people would agree that psychoanalysis as a form of treatment is on its last legs."
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-yo...
Not really singing its praises.
> Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel wrote in the 90's
Sure and Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman said:
> If you look at all of the complicated ideas that they have developed in an infinitesimal amount of time, if you compare to any other of the sciences how long it takes to get one idea after the other, if you consider all the structures and inventions and complicated things, the ids and the egos, the tensions and the forces, and the pushes and the pulls, I tell you they can't all be there. It's too much for one brain or a few brains to have cooked up in such a short time.
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#38ejected myself from a twitter addiction just a few months ago and this resonated. i think people read the “zombie” comparison as metaphor; IME, it’s pretty literally accurate. the realization that snapped me out of it cold turkey was that my twitter “self” —- cultivated outside of my body, for an environment of pure text —- had accumulated far more status, meaning, friendship, etc than my physical self possibly could…
before I kill him, I wonder whether there are some useful lessons I could learn from him.
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get" - you'd be surprised. People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis. > Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency is fascist kitsch". > It's just empty claptrap, that could h…
> People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis Article mentions Freud's desire for death. Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified, useless and outdated model. If psychology as a whole has a replication issue. Freud psychoanalytics has a deeply existential issue. > Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency i…
Yes. Which is not the same as a caricature of Freudian analysis.
>Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified
Not everything has to be verified. This tendency of Anglosaxons/Analyticals to want to "verify" everything is bunk. Heck, it's itself unprovable and can't be verified (you can't verify the need for verification -- in the end you always get to some unverified tenets you need to begin, e.g. utilitarianism).
>To quote a poet "Brevity is the soul of wit".
To quote another poet: "I have heard many people say, "Give me the ideas, it is no matter what words you put them into.... Ideas cannot be given but in their minutely appropriate words".
Re: A psychoanalytic reading of social media and the death drive
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I did not find this article particularly deep, psychoanalysis has hardly been discredited. The core of the theory has been infused into almost every psychological modality practiced today aside from CBT, and studies have shown its general efficacy as a practice to be on par with others and in some cases superior. For the past 20 or so years, the field of neuropsychoanalysis under Mark Solms et al. has done a lo…
> Hardly been discredited. In 2015, psychoanalyst Bradley Peterson, who is also a child psychiatrist and director of the Institute for the Developing Mind at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, said: "I think most people would agree that psychoanalysis as a form of treatment is on its last legs." https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-yo... Not really singing its praises. > Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel w…