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Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

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Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#31

Post by throwaway0a5e »

I've been reading a lot about the 1600-1700 period recently and it always amazes me how quickly these people went from "our first goal is to not starve and our second goal live as good Christians" to "let's attack anyone and anything that doesn't share our view of what good a good Christian is"

On one hand humanity doesn't change much so it's not that surprising but 400yr later you can still see the scars the backwards ideologies of various groups of early settlers left on New England.

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#32

Post by keeganpoppen »

unfunco wrote: post #14
kyle_morris_ wrote: post #3

Apparently 2 million Americans can trace their lineage to a passenger on the Mayflower who fell overboard and survived by grabbing a rope trailing behind. They include FDR, H.W. And W Bush.[1] [1] https://accesswdun.com/print/2015/11/352412

H.W. and W Bush? What are the odds?

small world

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#33

Post by throwaway0a5e »

jvanderbot wrote: post #25

I'm amazed they were only off by 63 miles, given the article claims dead reckoning was so inaccurate. I'm even more amazed they knew where they were relative to their destination after 66 days of dead reckoning.

The east coast had been mapped by that point. They knew where they were even if they were unhappy about it.

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#34

Post by mbroncano »

I found out today that the first university (!) in the continent dates back to the 1550s [0]. What made the Spaniards so successful that they were able not only to defeat a full blown civilization (as opposed to the weaker natives in the north) and were able to fully bootstrap their territories where the English took many attempts and failures? Was it the technology? Or just the nature of the northern territories?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colonial_universities_...

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#35

Post by throwaway0a5e »

mbroncano wrote: post #34

I found out today that the first university (!) in the continent dates back to the 1550s [0]. What made the Spaniards so successful that they were able not only to defeat a full blown civilization (as opposed to the weaker natives in the north) and were able to fully bootstrap their territories where the English took many attempts and failures? Was it the technology? Or just the nature of the northern territories? [1…

>Was it the technology? Or just the nature of the northern territories?

The English were the poors of Europe at the time. They couldn't afford well funded settlement expeditions. Jamestown barely survived. The Pilgrims were basically shown the door and had no better options. Then everyone on the wrong side of the English civil war came over shortly thereafter.

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#36

Post by closeparen »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #2

“These would have been on a cramped gun-deck (where the passengers would also live) with gun-ports” Was that really the case? It seems far more likely for the crew to have lived on the gun-decks since presumably they would have been trained to use the cannons, instead of the passengers.

Side note: anyone know when passenger vessels stopped being armed?

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#37

Post by jonstewart »

rbg246 wrote: post #28
jonstewart wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep! I’m descended from one of his brothers who came over a bit later. That so many Americans are descended from the Howland boys shows how important it can be to get in on the ground floor of a new enterprise.

I bet any one of your ancestor's from that time would swap their series A stock for your boring index fund portfolio that you hold by living today.

Not Auntie Hetty Green.

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#38

Post by stephenhuey »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #31

I've been reading a lot about the 1600-1700 period recently and it always amazes me how quickly these people went from "our first goal is to not starve and our second goal live as good Christians" to "let's attack anyone and anything that doesn't share our view of what good a good Christian is" On one hand humanity doesn't change much so it's not that surprising but 400yr later you can still see the scars the backwar…

I just read a recent biography of Dr. Benjamin Rush and it’s clear that even before the American revolution there were some strongly opposing views of how to treat native Americans and whether or not it was morally defensible to enslave Africans. So some who called themselves Christians would accept these practices and many others, like Rush, loudly opposed them (just like the disagreements that happen within groups today).

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#39

Post by throwaway0a5e »

hef19898 wrote: post #8
bserge wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been amazed by this ability to track your ancestors hundreds of years back. Were the records that good back then? I had lots of trouble getting birth records for my great-grandparents. The system in my country was terrible, if I didn't have the exact name and date of birth, they couldn't find anything. Nothing was digitized, maybe that changed but I doubt it. In fact, I did have the wrong day but fortunat…

My grandmother traced her family back to the 30 years war. No records after that. Churches are a very good source for that in Europe. That being said, I never understood the obsession with lineage.

This is like the Christian version of tracing your lineage back to when your lineage was a liability. If you're Jewish or have ancestry in the Balkans the dead end when all the old records were burned might be far more recent. It just happens that the wars of the 1500s and 1600s was the last time being the wrong kind of Christian was a big problem.

Re: Mayflower 400: the science of sailing across the ocean in 1620

#40

Post by throwaway0a5e »

dmd wrote: post #9
bserge wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been amazed by this ability to track your ancestors hundreds of years back. Were the records that good back then? I had lots of trouble getting birth records for my great-grandparents. The system in my country was terrible, if I didn't have the exact name and date of birth, they couldn't find anything. Nothing was digitized, maybe that changed but I doubt it. In fact, I did have the wrong day but fortunat…

My wife has managed to track one line of her ancestry (the Swiss line) back to 985. Swiss church records (Kirchenbücher) are online and extremely good.

Because Switzerland has been so stable. Records tend to get "lost" en-masse only when there's a genocidal army bearing down.
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