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Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

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Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take an inspiration from countries that get proper democracy right - like Switzerland. You can have public vote on anything, just gather enough signatures and it will happen. Result will be binding to government, whatever it means. This of course relies on population to be at least slightly smart and not dumb herd of easy to manipulate sheeps, but that's a basic premise of democracy in general.

Direct democracy always beats representative democracy. In the representative democracy, people have not voted for the content of the laws that the law makers pass. That's why Rousseau calls "representative democracy" slavery. Direct democracy can work in small countries. Will it work in a country with 150M or 300M people? Will it work? Maybe, one has to schedule voting every 6 months, just like a train schedule.

Yea, except direct democracy leads to government scope creep, if you want that, move to Europe and get nannied.

I don’t see us anywhere near a failed experiment and until anyone can make that case strongly, changing our fundamental structure is off the table. 3rd highest GDP per capita, most innovative country by far, extremely high tourism rate, most diverse country in multiple ways, consistently expanding healthcare / best cancer treatment the world / most innovative drug research, hugely successful progressive social movements, most philanthropic, cities that give the highest amounts of social welfare in per capita terms, you can go on.

Of course you can point out many bad things, but that doesn’t invalidate that it’s not failing, just that it’s not perfect - and to be honest, much of the failures to me look like local ones, not Federal ones. Take Chicago for example.

We need diversity of governance so we can find out what rule of law works best in the long run. Let Europe experiment with more direct democracy. Look at Singapore, Rwanda for the other side. Let the experiments run so long as they don’t trample on basic human rights. America is flawed, but for the same reason Google Chrome shouldn’t win out the browser wars, Representative Democracy should stay, it matches up well on the stats I care about, and it tends not to trample on freedoms nearly as much (something something three lions and a zebra).

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#172

What strikes me with the US is that they can be very progressive on some issues (e.g. lgbt rights), yet totally backward on others (torture, death penalty, mass incarceration and so on...).

Some groups in the US are very progressive on some issues. We still have larges swathes of the country that are backwards and like the torture that is mentioned in the article.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#173
post #31

What strikes me with the US is that they can be very progressive on some issues (e.g. lgbt rights), yet totally backward on others (torture, death penalty, mass incarceration and so on...).

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

What does identity politics have to do with human rights, and why does one preclude the other? Your statement makes it out to seem that you simply don't like what you consider "identity politics" and wanted to bring that into the discussion, regardless of how irrelevant it is.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clinton was in fact a centrist "third-way" democrat who often compromised or coopted Republican issues, e.g. welfare reform. Obama was not as much of a centrist but he was obstructed heavily by the opposition. I'll continue to blame the people who vote 90% in one direction over the ones who vote 90% the other lol. Edit: you added some specific comments about immigration. This is correct, Democrats are not very pro-im…

Even healthcare, though, what's the Biden playbook on healthcare? "Instead of starting from scratch and getting rid of private insurance, he has a plan to build on the Affordable Care Act by giving Americans more choice, reducing health care costs, and making our health care system less complex to navigate." This is a quote from the Biden campaign site. As though letting anyone enroll in Medicare is "starting from sc…

You’re arguing because modern Left positions haven’t successfully passed into law, that the parties are fundamentally the same?

A good half the county would strongly disagree with what you feel - and that they’ve blocked those from passing isn’t proof that the system is failing, it’s proof it’s working. Obama got his healthcare plan. Every president usually gets maybe one or two bigger things they want, not all. It’s a sign that it’s working. Remember, you’re in a democracy, and about half of the people don’t agree with DACA, increased immigration, single payer...

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#175

> The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) confirmed nine years after that El Masri was “severely beaten, sodomized, shackled, and hooded, and subjected total sensory deprivation—carried out in the presence of state officials of Macedonia and within its jurisdiction.” > Macedonia’s “government was consequently responsible for those acts performed by foreign officials…Those measures had been used with premeditation,…

I personally feel that America SHOULD pull influence/military completely out of Europe as they are well recovered from WW2 and should now be able to afford to have full militaries to handle any bullies in the region. We should stop all our foreign wars and are more or less doing that under Obama and now Trump. Let the Europeans deal with the Middle East since it is their backyard and not ours. I do think we should keep influence in East Asia though provided that Japan, Taiwan, Korea would like us to stick around. That's a sane foreign policy. I'm sure the Europeans will be angels in maintaining their political sovereignty.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky denied the genocide of Pol Pot and defended the Khmer Rouge to score points against CIA and Western Imperialism. start here on page 19 of Chomsky's book he wrote in 1979. https://libcom.org/history/chomsky-pol-pots-genocidal-regime... Chomsky was dead wrong about his heirarchy of languages and he set back computing by 50 years. He has also been wrong about geopolitics, since he ends up supporting the very Wes…

> he set back computing by 50 years No opinion on Chomsky's politics. But that quote definitely needs some substantiation. Personally, I don't see how anyone , has managed to set back computing by 50 years.

They haven't, it's a clear exaggeration, and lacks any substance at all.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've developed a false argument. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a vocal critic of female genital mutilation, but many of her other positions are islamophobic. Positions like "we are at war with Islam and it must be defeated." In reality, I can both oppose female genital mutilation and consider Ayaan Hirsi Ali racist.

> In reality, I can both oppose female genital mutilation and consider Ayaan Hirsi Ali racist. Of course you can. But became sufficiently famous doing so, and you will probably also find yourself on some list of "problematic" people. In case I am completely wrong about this, the best way to convince me would be to provide a name of a recent famous speaker against female genital mutilation who is considered politicall…

> course you can. But became sufficiently famous doing so, and you will probably also find yourself on some list of "problematic" people

This acts like people were out to vilify her, when she publicly holds incredibly offensive positions.

OK, I'll bite.

Former congressman Joe Crowley

Layli Miller-Muro

Nimco Ali

Comfort Momoh

Waris Dirie

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#178
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights. I disagree. I think we had torture so that a President could look tough on National Security as a re-election strategy. Not-torturing people and "identity politics" are not mutually exclusive, there is no reason that we couldn't have both. "Identity politics" is fundamentally about human liberty and t…

I'm not saying it's bad to have both . It's bad to have identity politics without first having human rights. Human rights are the foundation on which to build an equal society. Attempting to achieve equality before a even a right to life is secured is perverse and cannot work . Is it no wonder that the police in USA murder black people, when the state also does so?

They'll probably have more time to concentrate on basic human rights soon with the Republicans sure to vote in an anti-gay, anti-abortion, racist, anti-women's rights SCOTUS judge. There won't be any "swing vote" anymore. Roe v. Wade is history unless the democrats win both houses and the Presidency and can add 3 more left leaning SCOTUS judges. Say goodbye to voter rights, minority rights, and anything even slightly related to queer rights.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#179
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those who object to this barbarism, inflicted upon millions of girls every year, are actually, somehow, called “racists” for doing so. I am vehemently opposed to female genital mutilation. Even with HN's overly large number of contrarians and trolls, I claim no one can write a convincing argument that my previous sentence is in any way racist.

Why is it okay to perform the similar procedures on males? It's an outdated , barbaric practice

I agree, end it all. Save the foreskins.

Re: Survivor of CIA Torture and Rendition Supports Assange at Extradition Trial

#180
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former is distraction for the others. The left in USA has been convinced (or convinced itself) that identity politics is more important than human rights.

Does the USA have a left today? The right who voted for the new deal are left of today’s left. Today’s left are more right than yesterday’s right.

Please go back and cite me some references where they defended black rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, etc. I'll be waiting with bated breath.
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