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Vue.js 3

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Re: Vue.js 3

#271

Post by lhorie »

Smithalicious wrote: post #258
lhorie wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JSX point boils down to this: you can't say with a straight face that using react without writing JSX is as idiomatic as pulling vue from a CDN, and you can't say that using JSX is as easy to setup on a legacy codebase. React doesn't depend solely on there being a stable host DOM node. It also generally assumes data is programmatically structured. Try rendering FAQs as HTML with PHP then sprinkling answer togglin…

You've moved the goalposts from "not possible" to "not as idiomatic"

Look, I gave a challenge to implement FAQ page answer toggling on top of legacy PHP HTML. Show me that it's possible to do it in react in a not god awful hacky way without refactoring the backend first, then explain how it's comparable to a vue one using v-ifs, then we can knock off ourselves out debating semantics.

Re: Vue.js 3

#272

Post by [deleted] »

lmiller1990 wrote: post #226
RNCTX wrote: post #126

Vue is the only one of the most popular 3 frameworks that can easily be used on a minimal basis to sort of "spruce up" old applications by selectively adding it here and there in the templates. Seems like they should try more marketing and community outreach toward that end. Gradual adoption is a feature / selling point not many web development frameworks can claim.

Yep, this is my favorite thing about Vue. People will respond saying you "can do this with React, too". But in practice it's not nearly as nice to do as with Vue. You need React and React DOM AND JSX to really make it practical; writing React render functions is not really what you want to do when you are adding some simple functionality to an existing web app (like form validation).

[deleted]

Re: Vue.js 3

#273

Post by jtdev »

Exuma wrote: post #205
jtdev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve deployed a number of applications using Ember’s (Octane) and will continue to use that over React, Angular, and Vue for as long as these other frameworks continue to prioritize fp zealotry over getting shut done.

What do you mean 'fp'? Ember was quite literally one of the worst experiences ever. Not having javascript expressions in handlebars is literally excrutiating. I'm so glad I never have to use ember, ever, ever again.

Functional programming. Maybe you should have given helper functions a look: https://guides.emberjs.com/release/components/helper-functio...

Re: Vue.js 3

#274

Post by lhorie »

joshribakoff wrote: post #253
lhorie wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JSX point boils down to this: you can't say with a straight face that using react without writing JSX is as idiomatic as pulling vue from a CDN, and you can't say that using JSX is as easy to setup on a legacy codebase. React doesn't depend solely on there being a stable host DOM node. It also generally assumes data is programmatically structured. Try rendering FAQs as HTML with PHP then sprinkling answer togglin…

I think I know how to code a faq I use react to create a tool for humans to help autonomous vehicles with react. Jsx has nothing to do with how easy it is to embed react in a host app. If you want to compare build systems, VueJS is also less practical and robust without its optional build system. This was used as a reason angularJS v1 would kill react and it’s a tired argument IMO

You are shifting goalposts. Obviously every framework is "similar" enough if your baseline is "can I ship something with it". Heck, there are production apps out there written in choo and hyperapp and mithril. They all work just fine.

The argument here is that there is a substantial difference of effort required for a specific subset of project types (migrations from large non-SPA).

And for the record, all the vdom libs I mentioned are on the same boat as react, because it's an inherent trait of vdom based architectures.

I'm the author of one of them, and while I can't speak about others, I can say that I was ok with requiring simultaneous migrations from server rendered templates to REST APIs for scratching my itch, even though I was aware of DOM-first systems (angular 1, knockout, vue and intercooler are examples of those)

Contrary to popular belief, a framework is not required to be perfectly suitable for every scenario under the sun. And that's fine, nobody needs to get all defensive over it.

Re: Vue.js 3

#275

Post by yupnoop »

lmiller1990 wrote: post #226
RNCTX wrote: post #126

Vue is the only one of the most popular 3 frameworks that can easily be used on a minimal basis to sort of "spruce up" old applications by selectively adding it here and there in the templates. Seems like they should try more marketing and community outreach toward that end. Gradual adoption is a feature / selling point not many web development frameworks can claim.

Yep, this is my favorite thing about Vue. People will respond saying you "can do this with React, too". But in practice it's not nearly as nice to do as with Vue. You need React and React DOM AND JSX to really make it practical; writing React render functions is not really what you want to do when you are adding some simple functionality to an existing web app (like form validation).

> simple functionality to an existing web app (like form validation)

If all you are doing is adding a simple form validation to an existing web app, then you only need few lines of plain JS. You don't have to use vue either.

Re: Vue.js 3

#276

Post by daniellarusso »

bdcravens wrote: post #157
didip wrote: post #63

I am impressed with the amount of energy Evan is pouring in this open source project. I am curious if he ever experience boredom working on Vue. I am also curious if Patreon based income is sustainable for the long run. What if there's another new sexy JS framework in the future?

Patreon income may not be, but Vue-based income should be. This company focuses on development of Coldbox, a ColdFusion-based framework still in active development. If they can support a team and still continue development, Vue should be good for a while https://www.ortussolutions.com/

If you have not checked out Coldbox, I highly recommend it.

The Ortus folks are very smart and clever.

Cannot recommend them enough.

Re: Vue.js 3

#277

Post by RNCTX »

detaro wrote: post #268
mstipetic wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that somebody gave a compliment to vue, and immediately a bunch of react people came with their "well actually" React wasn't even mentioned, don't know why so defensive, who cares

I very much doubt the original comment mentioning "the most popular 3 frameworks" didn't have React in mind as one of those, even if they didn't spell it out, so that complaint IMHO makes little sense.

Actually it had both of them in mind.

People whose data validation is done via server-side logic probably don't need typescript either.

Re: Vue.js 3

#278

Post by shados »

earthboundkid wrote: post #245
shados wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React doesn't have templates, so that's a non-issue. JSX is sugar on JavaScript, but it's not a string. So template delimiters don't matter (that is, if you didn't use a build step, then it would be straight javascript functions calls)

That’s the whole point of the discussion: Vue makes it easier to have Django spit out My data here and then Vue notices and adds the event listeners. In React, it is very difficult if React has to start with foreign template output because it wants to own the (V)DOM.

For sure! I was just pointing out that discussing how easy Vue made it to change the delimiter ala Mustache isn't exactly a benefit vs React, since the whole concept doesn't reall exist there at all.

Re: Vue.js 3

#279

Post by shados »

ht85 wrote: post #204
shados wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React can be run from a single file from a CDN, and used without a build stage. Only catch is you don't get JSX. While by today's standard some people might consider that unacceptable, it was a fairly common way to use it when it was new (because relatively fewer teams used builds for JS back then, and JSX was far from being widely accepted). My first year of React development was without JSX even though we DID have…

React has been able to use jsx without build forever, here is a modern take: [1] The babel script is huge but it might be an option to get the ball rolling on a big upgrade. 1. https://medium.com/@to_pe/how-to-add-react-to-a-simple-html-...

I mean, using Babel in the browser is essentially a build step. Your code isn't executed as is and has to be preprocessed. It's huge and slow. Not particularly viable. If your goal is just to play around, sure, but the point the Vue folks are making is that they can do the same in a way that is production friendly (maybe not scalable, but still production viable). This isn't.

Re: Vue.js 3

#280

Post by barrkel »

runarberg wrote: post #232
barrkel wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we couldn't run NodeJS, then the front end devs wouldn't run this monstrosity that takes ages to start, downloads GBs of dependencies, consumes 12 cores for minutes at a time, etc. I exaggerate, but only slightly.

I find this attitude towards front-end developers unamuzing. If you have a beef with subset of developers in your workplace that happen to to work on the front-end, you should not take your frustration or generalize their behavior over an entire industry.

I don't know what it is about the Node.js ecosystem which leads to the dysfunction, but there's definitely dysfunction, and it's definitely endemic.

Compiling our front end assets takes longer and more CPU than our entire back end with many multiples the amount of source code.

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