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Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

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Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#191

Post by teawrecks »

bagacrap wrote: post #103
wheybags wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the case, they wouldn't have claimed it was a bug. Besides, big tech companies have lost the benefit of the doubt.

Fb* has lost benefit of the doubt. I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys. Is it really so hard to keep them straight?

Because only one of these companies needs to make a mistake before they all should learn from it. It would be like watching every construction company make the same egregious safety error one after the other. The first one to make the mistake is not as guilty as the 10th company to make the mistake after having just watched the previous 9.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#192

Post by heavyset_go »

spunker540 wrote: post #100
danShumway wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to have people post more photos and keep those metrics up But... that is data harvesting. When you upload photos to Facebook, you are giving them that data. That's not a conspiracy, that's just how Facebook's TOS works. It gets to look at the photos you upload and use that data to help build its internal profile for you. What's your definition of data harvesting? I would say that getting people to upload useful dat…

Photos and videos of people are not generally useful for ads. You know what is valuable? Actual purchase decisions sent in by advertisers. Photos and videos of people’s dogs and food and kids etc is strictly to entertain the other Facebook users and keep them coming back. An advertiser is willing to pay tons more to serve an ad to someone who has bought similar products in the past, and is likely to buy their product…

> Photos and videos of people are not generally useful for ads.

They're great for facial recognition, finding out more about relationships that exist in real life, and building sets of training data. Facebook is in all of those markets.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#193

Post by dfinninger »

zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

In the new iOS 14 there's a green (camera) or orange (microphone) dot in the upper right-hand corner of the phone. If you swipe down from the top right it'll show you what apps are using the input and which apps have used it recently.

So that's a step in the right direction.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#194

Post by mkay581 »

loriverkutya wrote: post #70
anhner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then she can choose not to browse the list?

My main point is that you need to present this information on a way that even those people can interpret it who can't/don't want to know about process lists because they are the majority. It's the same as you have an engine temperature gauge in most cars. I'm not really interested on what's going on inside the engine, I just want to know if the engine overheats so I can check basic things (cooling system leaks, etc)…

Not my intention for this to come off like a plug but Android has been doing this for quite a while now. It simply shows any process being ran as a silent notification and then goes away when it's done. I agree keeping a running log is probably unintuitive even for an advanced phone user but the way Android has pulled this off is surprisingly easy to wrap your head around.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#195

Post by meowface »

NickM wrote: post #159
izacus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, more likely, it's an engagement optimization to have people post more photos and keep those metrics up. These bizarre over-the-top conspiracy theories are really starting to get old, it's almost flat earth believers level.

We're talking about people thinking "this company has done a lot of underhanded stuff in the past, maybe they're doing another underhanded thing that they clearly have the ability and motivation to do." I fail to see how that is a conspiracy theory at all, much less one on par with believing the earth is flat.

This is the exact same logic behind all conspiracy theories.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#196

Post by can16358p »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #112
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

> As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. Look at it from a user's perspective: As a user, I don't know you. I have no reason to believe you. If I see my camera being accessed, I have no way to tell whether the data stream…

Yup, I don't trust Facebook either. But many regular users (not the people here on HN or reddit) don't even know that that means, let alone care. Facebook knows only a minority would make this an issue whatsoever, and they keep it. Not defending right or wrong, but I think this is just it.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#197

Post by sizzle »

can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

Why is there no LED light when the camera gets power on a smartphone like a macbook? This is insane that smartphone manufacturers thought it was a good idea to not indicate when your camera(s) activated. I've never understood this antipattern...

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#198

Post by hkai »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #88
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

> Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. This is about consumer trust. To the vast majority of consumers, a smartphone is a magic box with a lens and a display. What happens inside - how data is stored and processed, how the OS functions, how apps work,... - has been abstracted away behind those "UX optimized" interfaces you just mentioned. Co…

It looks to me like the media are still bitter about Facebook allegedly helping Russians elect Trump, and so they make up this non-news and instill panic and fear into people.

Pretty sure that now most people will be convinced that Facebook is recording them secretly.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#199

Post by hkai »

emsy wrote: post #13

Let’s assume for a moment the story turns out to be true: would people stop using Instagram because of it?looking at the history of privacy violations and the market’s responds to it I doubt it. There is a minority of users who will feel rightfully violated in their privacy (imagine browsing instagram naked while possibly being ogled at by some creep at FB). The worst that will happen is that FB will be sanctioned to…

You are talking about repercussions, yet clearly there is no proof that Instagram was "spying" on anyone.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#200

Post by not_really »

hkai wrote: post #199
emsy wrote: post #13

Let’s assume for a moment the story turns out to be true: would people stop using Instagram because of it?looking at the history of privacy violations and the market’s responds to it I doubt it. There is a minority of users who will feel rightfully violated in their privacy (imagine browsing instagram naked while possibly being ogled at by some creep at FB). The worst that will happen is that FB will be sanctioned to…

You are talking about repercussions, yet clearly there is no proof that Instagram was "spying" on anyone.

Blame has been placed on a bug, meaning you can safely assume there is irrefutable proof of camera access. (Why else would the claim of a bug need to be made?)

Spying or not, it's completely unacceptable.

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