US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns • Hacker News Board

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#181

Post by rudolph9 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #100

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

How does that apply to all other economic Sanctions? Like the sanctions on Cuba? If Cuba made a product that can arguably "enable free speech", would it be able to bypass sanctions?

We’re not banning all trade with a particular national, we’re banning a particular app from a nation we import more from (in terms of dollars as of 2019) than any other nation.

This kind of unilateral decision strikes me as short sighted and more politically motivated than anything.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#182

Post by jjcon » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #48

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

PSA: If you have an Android phone, you can download WeChat directly from wechat.com. You don't need to go through the Google Play store because your OS supports your freedom to some degree to install whatever you want on hardware that you OWN. If you have an iPhone, sorry that your phone company's CEO is pretty much a dictator and is complicit in restricting the freedom of Americans.

You can side load on iOS - quit spreading misinformation

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#183

Post by dane-pgp » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:32 PM UTC

newen wrote: post #109

wonnage wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same logic used by people who insist ads don't work on them, because "I never click them!"

Give me a break. All politicians put ads on Facebook. Surprising I know but Clinton put ads on Facebook too. Obama puts ads on Facebook, he gets marketing awards. Trump does the same thing and suddenly it’s armageddon and the Russians are coming.

> Trump does the same thing and suddenly it’s armageddon and the Russians are coming.

I think the complaints about Trump's 2016 campaign are that:

1. There's an important difference between Americans spending money to influence an American election and Russians (secretly) spending money to influence an American election. (Alternatively/additionally, Russia hacked computers and used that illegally obtained data to influence the American election).

2. When targeting ads, there's a difference between using data that voters willingly give your campaign and data that was disingenuously collected about people (e.g. Cambridge Analytica's infamous "5,000 data points on every American"[0]).

The extent to which either of these things happened is subject to debate, as is the extent to which either of them changed the outcome of the election.

[0] https://www.wired.com/story/what-did-cambridge-analytica-rea...

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#184

Post by jjcon » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

tomlin wrote: post #176

For a country to purport itself to be about freedom...

Isn’t this just an embargo? The fact that it is on software is new but embargos have been a thing in just about every western democracy

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#185

Post by jjcon » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

neves wrote: post #165

What really makes me afraid is that the USA Gov is so scared of a foreign social network app, they must really know how powerful are these apps. How would I trust the social networks under the American Gov?

> How would I trust the social networks under the American Gov?

Presumably a country probably wouldn’t if they are an enemy of the western world.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#186

Post by busheezy » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #80

chance_state wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? You need a "sponsor" to use WeChat?

To use the Chinese version of WeChat.

To use the version of WeChat I downloaded through the Play store.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#187

Post by 01100011 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:44 PM UTC

busheezy wrote: post #6

It seems like WeChat access is pretty hard to get in the US currently if you don't know anyone that uses it. I registered an account to try and get support for my Ender 3D printer(nightmare). After a few fields the app asked me to have my sponsor enter my number and I wasn't able to progress further so I uninstalled.

I ran into this as well. At some point I was able to sign up using a facebook login. I subsequently deleted facebook, but WC still works.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#188

Post by antonvs » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #84

fooey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered if this has all been because TikTok influencers famously tricked team Trump into thinking they had a full stadium for a rally that turned out to be humiliatingly empty. But this seems overly petty for even Trump, it's just bizarre.

> But this seems overly petty for even Trump, Nothing is overly petty for him.

I'm fascinated by these downvotes. Is HN super pro-Trump, or are we just dealing with raging cases of "rationalist" enlightened centrism?

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#189

Post by ReptileMan » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

SoylentYellow wrote: post #173

hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

I am focusing on WeChat only with this comment. It is not narrowly tailored or least restrictive. Narrowly tailored means the law must be precisely written to minimize the 1st Amendment impact. In this case, this order prevents millions of Americans from using their primary (and oftentimes only) method to communicate with family in China. There is no practical alternative to WeChat as all other similar apps are banne…

Can you provide a solution that has less 1A impact about Chinese app ran on Chinese servers? I don't think that USG could achieve the goals of Chinese not being able to intercept US communication with anything less than a ban on some level.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#190

Post by antonvs » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #73

I'm confused: How does the executive branch have the right to unilaterally edit app stores? If Trump says "I'm sick of Barron playing CandyCrush at the dinner table, let's just ban it" can he do that? How? Shouldn't this require legislation? As an American, this seems very... "unamerican".

I agree. We're basically implementing the American version of the Great Firewall of China, which previously was heavily criticized.