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Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#71

Not a fan of Raspberry Pi. It hides behind proprietary Broadcom chip, no DSI/MIPI support and you're at the mercy of Raspberry PI for any sort of commercial implementation (RPi Zero and independent module). They do guarantee upto 2026 availability for their DIMM modules which is nice. We wanted to build commercial device using RPi but its a no go due to its blackbox nature. What they should do is to leverage their po…

> Raspberry Pi is an ecosystem which is based on proprietary technologies and masquerading as an open source friendly thing It depends on what layer you care about. At the application layer it is completely open. Even if the chip designs and drivers were open source, you could claim that there are proprietary processes and supply chains for the hardware and material themselves. Unless amateurs could build one from sc…

> It depends on what layer you care about. At the application layer it is completely open.

I'm not down with this injection of skepticism. This is slipperly language trying to make a pretty clearly contrasted situation murky.

Sure, if you just need something to process instructions, maybe the well-defined cpu architecture is enough. But kernels need things like timers to run. They need USB hosts to attach keyboards & mice. They need GPUs to out things to screen. They need power management to not run hot. They need SD(-card) io to access storage.

Yes, you can run any code on an RPi, that is some definition of open. But it should be obvious that for this to be useful & prevalent, a lot more is required, and those layers being locked away, in proprietary systems, that we have to keep reverse-engineering usage of, is a huge detractor from civilization & it's functioning.

> you could claim that there are proprietary processes and supply chains for the hardware and material themselves

> Unless amateurs could build one from scratch you will never be satisfied.

I was not expecting slippery slope to descend quite so quickly! But perhaps you are right!

There is a lot of interest in open source chipmaking these days, and hopefully we indeed do start to see a re-opening of the foundries that lead to such growth & science in the 80's, that created so much progress. Companies like Oracle & IBM certainly seem to have similar desires, to insure that we can satisfy ourselves & learn & grow, first with OpenSPARC in 2005, and OpenPOWER in 2013 certainly indicate that some very big entities in the world see & understand the value of open, through and through. More recently, works like RISC-V & OpenROAD show architectures & processes are once again coming back into focus as a thing that people see the value in opening, in being able to work together in. Google is doing free chip fabrication runs to try to help re-grow this once proud & mighty but clearly ossifying sector that has undergone a massive wave of buy-outs & consolidation. Because we have to keep the knowledge & know-how alive & growing. Because people should be making chips. And too few are these days.

That all said, I think there's a pretty clear cut difference between what you are posting about "proprietary processes and supply chains" versus situations like what we have here, where Broadcom makes chips, then conceals & makes it difficult for anyone but a couple chosen embedded partners to understand or use those chips. It's a bit frustrating that Broadcom continues to use their own proprietary peripherals they've adapted over the decades versus using more off-the-shelf standard-operating peripherals. But it's not necessarily the proprietary bit that makes this so sticky: it's the overarchingly user-hostile attitude of this behemoth, the lengths they seemingly go through to keep amateurs out & away, in contrast to other companies that if not directly support at least don't obstruct upstreaming & open source driver development. I look at the wifi-router world, & Broadcom routers are basically get-what-you-buy now, no ability to customize or change OS. Broadcom used to allow alternate OSes, but since 802.11ac, they have more or less cut off access. This was always proprietary, but at least it was something we could learn about, interface with, but now, it is locked down.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just by renaming a symlink on the server. Wow. How?

Netboot instructions are here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry... The important bit is that it will look for its boot files in a subdirectory named the serial number of the Pi. Only if that fails will it look in the root. So I have symlinks for the serial numbers of all my Pis that point to whatever OS I want to boot.

Very interesting it looks for the serial number and not the MAC address!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netbooting and mounting NFS root would be done over local lan, the speed of internet connection has no relevance there.

Right, I was referring to my parent comment that talked about pulling Docker images which come from the internet unless you set up a proxy.

Ok, that depends on the docker images; things like pihole are relatively small (300 MB, including all layers); I would be more afraid of running containers over NFS slowed down by rpi ethernet, than downloading the images themselves.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#74

Best decision I ever made was setting up a Pi netboot server on my LAN. Now I have a whole bunch of Pi 3's and 4's scattered around my home with no local storage at all doing cool things, and I can make them boot into a completely different OS just by renaming a symlink on the server.

what hardware does the netboot server run on?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#75
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I have a whole bunch of Pi 3's and 4's scattered around my home with no local storage at all doing cool things Elaborate? I have a single pi3 as a Plex server, looking for more ideas.

Two play music, one into my hifi, one into my home audio distribution system. One is setup for RetroPie. One has LibreELEC installed, showing TV from my HDHomeRun. One has a GPS hat and is a local NTP server. And one boots into an Amiga emulator because I'm very old and nostalgic.

do you have a blog about this, or willing to share any more info? This sounds like something I'd like to start working towards

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#76

Not a fan of Raspberry Pi. It hides behind proprietary Broadcom chip, no DSI/MIPI support and you're at the mercy of Raspberry PI for any sort of commercial implementation (RPi Zero and independent module). They do guarantee upto 2026 availability for their DIMM modules which is nice. We wanted to build commercial device using RPi but its a no go due to its blackbox nature. What they should do is to leverage their po…

> If you want to support proper open source development ... buy Beagle board and other alternatives. What more open alternatives are there with similar price and performance? The Beagleboards are ridiculously underpowered compared to a Raspberry Pi 4. I like the ODROIDs but I don't think they're any more open than Raspberry Pi. They also tend to be more expensive. YMMV on all of this stuff: * Some folks are doing mic…

Odroid series come with a wide variety of chips. The Amlogic S905X3 has good upstream support (largely via a very active volunteer community) & is on their Odroid-C4.

If performance is your top concern, you should stick with x86. There's no ARM gear with anywhere near the bang/$ of an Odroid H2+, which is an rpi-like $120 x86 single-board system. It is fantastically well supported by the cpu vendor.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#77
As a pi noob: does this make it more reliable/feasible to use a pi to run a home server/application/etc? I've read in the past that SD cards aren't good with repeated read/writes, which makes it somewhat unreliable in the long run. If a pi is configured to run via USB, does that make it as reliable as other consumer hardware like a pc/laptop?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#78

Might be a silly question because I'm a noob in this area, but: Does this work with the official Ubuntu images or only Raspbian?

From the github page (https://github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-eeprom/issues/28) you can see that this needs an updated firmware which you can install via rpi-update. Never used Ubuntu on the Pi only raspbian, but I am sure they also have those rpi tools. How does Ubuntu run on the Pi work? I never got passed installation, because after install the first boot just hangs. It seems to me it wants to install additional stuff via ethernet which in my case is not attached and I never had the option to configure wifi....

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#79
post #74

Best decision I ever made was setting up a Pi netboot server on my LAN. Now I have a whole bunch of Pi 3's and 4's scattered around my home with no local storage at all doing cool things, and I can make them boot into a completely different OS just by renaming a symlink on the server.

what hardware does the netboot server run on?

It's a Dell Poweredge running FreeNAS, which I was already using as, well, a NAS.

The required DHCP responses come from my router running pfSense, which is some kind of cheap Supermicro thing.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 can finally boot directly from USB

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two play music, one into my hifi, one into my home audio distribution system. One is setup for RetroPie. One has LibreELEC installed, showing TV from my HDHomeRun. One has a GPS hat and is a local NTP server. And one boots into an Amiga emulator because I'm very old and nostalgic.

do you have a blog about this, or willing to share any more info? This sounds like something I'd like to start working towards

I haven't documented it, but it's very simple.
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