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US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

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Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#151

Post by ardy42 »

romwell wrote: post #145
apta wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the CCP has banned non-CCP apps, they're getting a taste of their own medicine.

Yeah, let's follow CCP practices in the US, that'll show 'em!

> Yeah, let's follow CCP practices in the US, that'll show 'em!

To a certain extent, yes. A lot of foreign relations is about reciprocation and self-interest. For many, many years the US tolerated CCP polices that hurt its interests with the hope that, over time, that would cause the CCP would liberalize. That hasn't happened, and it's clear it won't happen anytime soon.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#152

Post by jlmorton »

bambax wrote: post #143

Why does the rest of the world tolerate American bullying is beyond me. At least in Europe, we should ban every Facebook app immediately. This would have the added benefit of letting regional apps emerge.

One big reason is that America controls the SWIFT network for settling international transactions. If you hate American commercial bullying, perhaps the biggest thing to be excited about is Europe's SWIFT-alternative, INSTEX.

The world is so reliant on SWIFT currently that America can grind your commerce to a halt if you don't refuse to do business with entities it doesn't want you to.

(I realize this current TikTok action is domestic-only and unrelated to SWIFT, but I'm speaking more broadly).

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#153

Post by [deleted] »

chance_state wrote: post #58
busheezy wrote: post #6

It seems like WeChat access is pretty hard to get in the US currently if you don't know anyone that uses it. I registered an account to try and get support for my Ender 3D printer(nightmare). After a few fields the app asked me to have my sponsor enter my number and I wasn't able to progress further so I uninstalled.

Wait what? You need a "sponsor" to use WeChat?

[deleted]

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#154

Post by ponker »

tuna-piano wrote: post #72
hirundo wrote: post #17

Banning a speech app should trigger strict judicial scrutiny for first amendment infringement in the same way that banning a newspaper would: 1. Is it necessary to a "compelling state interest"? Maybe they are CCP surveillance apps, but that needs be shown in court, not merely asserted. 2. Is it "narrowly tailored" to achieving this compelling purpose? This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. 3. Does it use the "lea…

Good points. It's crazy the level of power I'm learning our executive branch has... Government is dangerous without checks and balances.

TikTok is nothing... Donald Trump has the unilateral authority to launch a nuclear strike on any target at any time. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#155

Post by ultrarunner »

zaksoup wrote: post #52
dheera wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA: If you have an Android phone, you can download WeChat directly from wechat.com. You don't need to go through the Google Play store because your OS supports your freedom to some degree to install whatever you want on hardware that you OWN. If you have an iPhone, sorry that your phone company's CEO is pretty much a dictator and is complicit in restricting the freedom of Americans.

How come the argument "you can just buy an android phone" doesn't apply to iOS users in the same way "you can just sideload an APK" does to Google play store users? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious about how people think of these distinctions.

Personally, it's a bit like if I purchased a Mercedes but found that I could only drive it on certain pre-approved roads, subject to varying partnerships and licensing agreements. Someone telling me, "you can just buy a scooter" seems predicated on the assertion that they both belong in the same category of "means of transportation," but ignores the fact that they operate very differently in several ways. It also ignores the fact that I've paid for the Mercedes (and possibly invested time and money into skills and tools to repair it), and can't necessarily recoup those costs.

Fundamentally, it ignores whether freedom of movement should be infringed in such a way. One can currently sideload an APK on Android, but what's stopping Google from taking the same hard line as Apple?

Note: I am using the hyperbolic analogy above for rhetorical reasons; I don't think Android phones are perfectly analogous to a scooter. We use Android at work precisely because of Apple's lockdowns, and while I actually like the OS well enough I think I would find it frustrating on a personal phone.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#156

Post by em-bee »

rvz wrote: post #87
euix wrote: post #40

On the flip side maybe Fdroid will take off. Is fdroid open source repos only? If Bytedance was gutsy they could release an open source version of tiktok. They could keep their algo as closed off either as compiled code or for the app to make API calls? The rest of the code base, everyone could see.

> On the flip side maybe Fdroid will take off. Is fdroid open source repos only? FLOSS repos I guess, but they are 'opinionated' in which open source software they allow on f-droid which this statement goes against the entire idea of FLOSS. Even if the software is open source and free software [0]. As you said, Bytedance must essentially do the same thing as Telegram and relicense it as GPL3 [1]. That includes everyt…

f-droid clients support multiple repos. the main repo is just one. in the f-droid forums you can find others which employ different policies.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#157

Post by pantalaimon »

technoplato wrote: post #8

I’m genuinely curious what the perceived threat is here. Is it as simple as “China is going to read everyone’s stuff and use machine learning to figure out what the cool kids are doing and then brainwash them?”

It’s probably retaliation for this https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/07/07/tiktok-...

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#159

Post by CWuestefeld »

dahfizz wrote: post #125
CWuestefeld wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems narrowly tailored to two apps. Doesn't that make it a Bill of Attainder, which is unconstitutional? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder A bill of attainder (also known as an act of attainder or writ of attainder or bill of penalties) is an act of a legislature declaring a person, or a group of persons, guilty of some crime, and punishing them, often without a trial.

>is an act of a legislature Seems pretty clear that this does not apply to actions of the commerce department because they are not a legislature. They are not finding China / the apps guilty of a crime or punishing them for that crime. Even if Congress issued this ban, Congress has the explicit right to regulate commerce in the constitution. Trade embargo and sanctions are a very well established power of the governm…

the commerce department because they are not a legislature

The Commerce Department operates as a proxy for Congress. They were set up to fully codify and implement the broader regulations enacted by Congress.

Congress can't create a proxy that has the power to do things that the Congress itself doesn't have the power to do itself.

If you want to pretend that this isn't being done under the aegis of Congress but rather the Executive, you're going to have to point to me the enumerated power that gives that branch the power to regulate commerce at all.

They are not finding China / the apps guilty of a crime or punishing them for that crime.

That's the same legal silliness that our law enforcement folks like to use to justify asset forfeiture. I was under the impression that the consensus around here is that it's BS.

Re: US bans WeChat, TikTok from app stores, threatens shutdowns

#160

Post by pantalaimon »

bambax wrote: post #143

Why does the rest of the world tolerate American bullying is beyond me. At least in Europe, we should ban every Facebook app immediately. This would have the added benefit of letting regional apps emerge.

Germany just offered to invest $1.2 billion in LNG terminals if US allows them to continue with Nordstream 2.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Germany-O...

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