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What happened to Firefox Send?

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231–240 of 267 posts

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#231
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but a team of 50 persons in total to support a project as complex as Firefox is not reasonable speculation at all.

Is it? I feel that people vastly overestimate the actual number of competent programmers (not managers, CxOs, etc) many projects need. Consider that even here on HN we have one person who wrote their own HTML5 renderer, JS-like scripting language, CSS, etc from scratch (csmile). How do you figure that to go from that to what is needed to make a browser that renders sites properly you need to add more than 49 addition…

Yeah, as someone who wrote a good chunk of a CSS layout engine (Servo) I can confidently say that this comment demonstrates a huge lack of appreciation of what the scale of work involved is.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#232
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magic wormhole is your friend

Magic Wormhole is a security disaster. Do not use if you have other options. 1) By default, authentication key has only 16 bits of entropy. (I wish I was making this up…) 2) There's no good UI to make the key stronger: you can either use, say, "--code-length 16", which makes the receiving code ridiculously long, or provide your own code with "--code", in which case it's visible to other local users via ps(1). 3) Betw…

> By default, authentication key has only 16 bits of entropy. (I wish I was making this up…)

It's a PAKE being used for Socialist Millionaire-style interactive authentication. So that key needs to be successfully guessed by the attacker. If they guess wrong they don't get any further attempts, game over, all three participants (the sender, receiver and this attacker) learn it didn't work. That's just not an attractive attack.

I've written on HN before that I think this is too few bits on balance, but that's because of social effects (a million people use it, one person gets very unlucky, that impacts take up for the same reason people don't review products that were fine, they're either 5/5 best in class or 0/5 this product killed my cat)

Setting code length 16 means you want a 128-bit PAKE. You've noticed that 128-bit secrets aren't very convenient for humans. But you don't seem to have thought any further than that, just convinced it should be "fixable" without introspecting about the core problem.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#233
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all their "side projects" look like greenfields used by the project teams to boost their CVs so they can land better jobs. Those teams know very well that those projects have no use case, but they dont care. Foundation does not care either, since it is busy with increasing own remuneration and politics. Meanwhile their core product lost around 10 percentage points of market share (from 15% marketshare to 5%):…

If you think Firefox has stagnated you clearly aren't aware of the substantial and complex improvements that have been made to the firefox core over the last couple of years: * Faster Quantum Engine (multi-process architecture, etc) * Faster CSS rendering with Stylo * GPU-based rendering with WebRender Any Moz engineer who worked on the above will have boosted their CV's substantially. They don't need to work on tang…

Quantum was a marketing name for various improvements that landed before support for old extensions was removed.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#234
post #199
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all their "side projects" look like greenfields used by the project teams to boost their CVs so they can land better jobs. Those teams know very well that those projects have no use case, but they dont care. Foundation does not care either, since it is busy with increasing own remuneration and politics. Meanwhile their core product lost around 10 percentage points of market share (from 15% marketshare to 5%):…

I hesitate to reply to this, because it's such a caricature of negativity. It's kind of a rollup of all of the crap that HN comes up with to fling at Mozilla. Everything has some kernel of truth in it, but it's pretty heavily buried. 1) The majority of developers at Mozilla are working on Firefox. Many more than 50. It is true that we have fewer staff than Google has working on Chrome (Mozilla is less than half, I he…

(not the parent)

2) I'll concede the technical reasons. But it's been something like four years now, and you still haven't caught up with what the previous extensions could do. There's still no way to remap keys without waiting for the current tab to load, for example. This is a very important UX feature!

4) The problem is, when you force users to go through the Mozilla gatekeeper, it's all the more important to get this right and not have that gatekeeper sleeping on the job.

Second, the failure behavior was not fail-safe. Users had their previously-signed addons disabled when this struck. Many of these were necessary to protect their privacy, which was then compromised.

(Proper fail-safe behavior would have been to allow already-signed addons to keep working or put up a warning, so don't tell me it would have needed a huge investment of resources to avoid that catastrophe.)

How many other browsers have had a sudden global feature outage like that?

And, to make it worse, your leadership thought it was somehow reassuring to say, "Oh, don't worry, we broke the promises of the user experiments feature to push out a forced update that fixed this!"

>A decision to not sign addons would have consequences as well -- which we knew intimately, because they were very, very real and growing rapidly.

Mozillians keep insisting this but I have yet to see evidence. Has there been even one case of a user a) who is technically adept enough to enable unsigned add-ons, and b) sideloaded an extension, and c) suffered a security catastrophe that merited Mozilla intervention? Most of the naive users you're claiming to protect can't even get past a).

Chrome allows unsigned addons just by toggling developer mode. Where are their massive security breaches from that?

The original promise of Firefox was to give me back control of my machine. Having to go through Mozilla for my custom extension just feels like the days of getting software from shrinkwrap at Best Buy again.

My parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taGARf8K5J8

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#235
post #95

I really don't understand it. - Content was used to spread malware/illegal content - It was not profitable How are those two things something you find out after the fact? What was the reasoning for launching the product in the first place?

Nearly all their "side projects" look like greenfields used by the project teams to boost their CVs so they can land better jobs. Those teams know very well that those projects have no use case, but they dont care. Foundation does not care either, since it is busy with increasing own remuneration and politics. Meanwhile their core product lost around 10 percentage points of market share (from 15% marketshare to 5%):…

[deleted]

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" as in "the people who knows how to use the command line". Unfortunately very few of the people I send files to knows that. There's https://webwormhole.io/ and https://file.pizza/ , but can I know what they really do behind the scenes? Native open-source software for this would be a dream come true. It's 2020 and I still wrestle with sending files between devices. And no, don't take this as a wish for creating ju…

I've started a UI for magic wormhole: https://github.com/sneakypete81/wormhole-ui It's GPL, cross-platform, native (Qt) and uses the same Python library as the Magic Wormhole CLI.

I've tested it on my own devices and it installed and worked without a hitch. Thanks.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Firefox has stagnated you clearly aren't aware of the substantial and complex improvements that have been made to the firefox core over the last couple of years: * Faster Quantum Engine (multi-process architecture, etc) * Faster CSS rendering with Stylo * GPU-based rendering with WebRender Any Moz engineer who worked on the above will have boosted their CV's substantially. They don't need to work on tang…

I honestly don't see these as a good sign for a browser as a tool , instead of some software development adventure. Firefox has a much smaller team than Chrome to begin with, and they can only work on so many things. If they keep spending time in "re-inventing the wheel" (in addition to what you listed, they also revamp their mobile client quite a few times in my recent memory), what left behind is attention to detai…

I think performance matters to more people than full range video.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#238

For transferring large files between machines that don’t necessarily have the same clients installed I find file.pizza quite convenient. My understanding is it basically loads a JavaScript BitTorrent client and let’s you transfer using that protocol, so both ends needs to be online, but there is no file size limit, and good support on flaky connections. There’s a few services like this, but I always find file.pizza t…

If you’re looking for an alternative, consider https://webwormhole.io/ (source: https://github.com/saljam/webwormhole). I used it once to send some small files, and it worked well. I don’t know how well it handles large files.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#239
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no good UI to make the key stronger: you can either use, say, "--code-length 16", which makes the receiving code ridiculously long So you want short, high-entropy keys in a restricted alphabet? That might be tough. Anyway, if it’s not brute-forceable and/because attacks are visible, it’s not really an issue.

I don't know what you mean by "restricted alphabet". "--code-length 16" gives you 137 characters on average. With base64, you could have the same amount of entropy in 22 characters.

Base64 is harder to type, memorize, and communicate, although I do usually use lowercase letters for this type of thing as an improvement over digits.

Re: What happened to Firefox Send?

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see these as a good sign for a browser as a tool , instead of some software development adventure. Firefox has a much smaller team than Chrome to begin with, and they can only work on so many things. If they keep spending time in "re-inventing the wheel" (in addition to what you listed, they also revamp their mobile client quite a few times in my recent memory), what left behind is attention to detai…

I think performance matters to more people than full range video.

Performance isn't the only thing people care when choosing a browser. If it is, they probably abandoned Fx for a Blink based browser long time ago. Also does Firefox really have significant performance issue after 57?
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