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Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#21

Post by mns »

glial wrote: post #6
aaroninsf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it's appropriate to hate the player. There is nothing in the ad revenue ecosystem which requires indulgence in or tolerance for sociopathic, amoral, unethical, or duplicitous behavior. Complicity. Complacency. Collusion. That's what participation is today. Ignorance may no longer be pleaded.

You're implicitly arguing that Facebook should be a censor. Censoring at scale is a fool's errand. Change the incentive structure. Make Facebook operate by subscription, make timelines linear, etc. You'll never stop people from spreading dumb shit online, but you can stop it being willfully propagated to maximize engagement.

But this is absurd. We can’t give them a free pass and believe the fact that they can’t moderate content. They want all benefits of being this global giant, but none of the responsibilities. If you can’t moderate and provide a clean environment, maybe we should break them up or restrict their power, because it’s obvious they can’t handle it.

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#22

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #10
Galactasm wrote: post #3

By the same logic couldn’t you also blame cell phones and the internet? And the radio? And the printing press... and any technology that increases the dissemination rate of information?

I think the main reason behind blaming facebook is that facebook decides what you see in your stream. It does so automatically and doesn't author that conent but I don't think it absolves them of responsibility.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#24

Post by tasty_freeze »

Galactasm wrote: post #3

By the same logic couldn’t you also blame cell phones and the internet? And the radio? And the printing press... and any technology that increases the dissemination rate of information?

Imagine a highway and car traffic on that highway. Then a car manufacturer comes along and figure out a way that their revenue increases the more their cars have accidents.

In such a case one could blame that car manufacturer without blaming the highway their cars are operating on.

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#25

Post by louwrentius »

glial wrote: post #2

Personally I've been off of Facebook since 2008 but...don't hate the player, hate the game. Facebook makes big money serving ultra-targeted ads for their customers. But, it's not the only one: see Twitter, Google, etc. Penalizing Facebook without also changing the incentive structure (personalized advertising) is a short-term, short-sighted fix.

What kind of moral values do you hold (if any) if your whole plan was to just create a page on which you can 'rate women'?

How can anyone justify working at facebook, knowing perfectly well what they do.

It just shows more that money seems to quiet a lot of consciences. And look at all that amazing tech you could work on!

Werner von Braun worked also on awesome rocket tech back in the day...

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#26

Post by throwawayffffas »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14

TL;DR: Recap of several recent revelations and reports about conspiracy theorists and bad foreign actors using Facebook as a tool to spread their messages. No suggestions for how to address the situation. These articles would be much more interesting if they included any suggestions at all for how to address the issues.

My personal 2c on how to fix this is make everyone liable for what's on their website, regardless of who wrote it. I don't care if that breaks youtubes, facebooks, twitters and reddits business model.

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#27

Post by AlexandrB »

This conversation has been had on HN a few dozen times now, so let me predict posts we'll see:

> Framing of Facebook as just the next stage in the evolution of mass media.

> Personal story about how Facebook helped someone find help or companionship in a tough time.

> Admonitions about how Facebook's benefits are not worth the societal cost.

> A call for regulation.

> A call for a free-market solution.

> A post from someone who works in marketing about how "that's where the audience is so we have to give them money".

> Personal story about eerily accurate targeting.

> Personal story about how the targeting is totally inaccurate.

> Humblebrags about how long ago one hasn't used Facebook - "I haven't used Facebook since 1914, when the Kaiser went to war."

> Pointing out that traditional media is just scared because they're being disrupted.

> Something about "Facebook" being a black mark on one's resume.

I just wish there was something we could do other than repeatedly argue about the nature/scope/cause/solution of the problem, but the US political process is pretty broken.

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#28

Post by glial »

creato wrote: post #16
glial wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're implicitly arguing that Facebook should be a censor. Censoring at scale is a fool's errand. Change the incentive structure. Make Facebook operate by subscription, make timelines linear, etc. You'll never stop people from spreading dumb shit online, but you can stop it being willfully propagated to maximize engagement.

Your suggestions are still independent of personalized advertising. The thing your suggestions would reduce is engagement, which would reduce revenue from any kind of advertising, not just personalized ads.

In my mind the problem isn't personalized ads per se, it's the incentive for Facebook to increase engagement -- which is shared by personalized and non-personalized ad revenue alike. I have the same issue with ad-driven news organizations of any type - how can you trust what they're saying, if they're just trying to keep you watching till the upcoming commercial?

Re: Facebook Has Been a Disaster for the World

#29

Post by BrandonM »

I've recently been thinking about the parallels between social media and the Tower of Babel. Maybe ancient societies were onto something when they warned us of the dangers of everyone communicating with one another. Perhaps there's something more robust about a dispersed humanity where a message can't be distributed to everyone.
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