Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#151

Post by ethanbond » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

bitxbit wrote: post #145

loriverkutya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

Ok so we are going for the least common denominator based on your mother. Makes zero sense.

Not saying they shouldn't do it, but in a company with finite resources dedicated to the needs of 100,000,000 users, <1% of whom would ever look at such a thing, not getting around to that feature would make a non-zero amount of sense.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#152

Post by dylan604 » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

fdeage wrote: post #121

srtjstjsj wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it Facebook's fault that the OS had a bug that triggers the camera notification when the camera is in standby mode? There's no reputational damage because the world is already split between people who think FB is the devil and people who don't care.

You forgot a third kind: FB employees.

No, I would put them squarely in the Don't Care group because they cannot possibly be in a Don't Know group.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#153

Post by maxmamis » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #103

wheybags wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the case, they wouldn't have claimed it was a bug. Besides, big tech companies have lost the benefit of the doubt.

Fb* has lost benefit of the doubt. I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys. Is it really so hard to keep them straight?

Incentives. FB behaves like this because it's profitable for them to do so. Do you expect this sort of behavior is somehow not profitable for other companies of their scale?

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#154

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

loriverkutya wrote: post #48

zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#155

Post by angel_j » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #140

On a side note, IG works perfectly fine being denied the Camera permission. In fact, it doesn't even complain about it until you try to take a picture in-app... and most users' workflow is taking pics with their phone's camera app (which is almost always better than IG's) and uploading the actual files to IG (you can still apply filters and everything else this way).

It doesn't need access to your photo library either. Imagine giving access to your whole roll!

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#156

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

loriverkutya wrote: post #48

zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#157

Post by soamv » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

loriverkutya wrote: post #48

zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

The comment you're replying to does not describe a process list.

Users do understand the concept of apps, obviously. A log of "App X used the camera", "App Y accessed your location" is well within what non-tech-savvy smartphone users can understand.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#158

Post by bostik » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #135

bagacrap wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fb* has lost benefit of the doubt. I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys. Is it really so hard to keep them straight?

I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys. For the same reason that people believe all politicians are evil, and the all lawyers kick puppies into a woodchipper for fun. It's "otherism." Or to put it in gambling terms: Playing the odds.

It's the 95-5 rule.

95% of a given population ruin the reputation of the remaining 5%.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#159

Post by NickM » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #40

tchalla wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Here's what Facebook does once you give access to the iOS Photos app. Every time you open the Facebook app, it asks you - "Would you like to post these photos on Facebook?". Basically, they are reading the Photos library repeatedly to scan for recent (or past) photos along with their meta…

Or, more likely, it's an engagement optimization to have people post more photos and keep those metrics up. These bizarre over-the-top conspiracy theories are really starting to get old, it's almost flat earth believers level.

We're talking about people thinking "this company has done a lot of underhanded stuff in the past, maybe they're doing another underhanded thing that they clearly have the ability and motivation to do."

I fail to see how that is a conspiracy theory at all, much less one on par with believing the earth is flat.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#160

Post by robbintt » Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:52 PM UTC

devit wrote: post #113

emsy wrote: post #13

Let’s assume for a moment the story turns out to be true: would people stop using Instagram because of it?looking at the history of privacy violations and the market’s responds to it I doubt it. There is a minority of users who will feel rightfully violated in their privacy (imagine browsing instagram naked while possibly being ogled at by some creep at FB). The worst that will happen is that FB will be sanctioned to…

A lot of people would probably deny camera permissions to Instagram (and upload by sharing from gallery if they upload content), and their reputation would take a significant hit (currently they aren't known to covertly gather any personal data beyond generic OS-provided statistics). Also Instagram isn't really essential to communicate and learn about events in the way the main Facebook service is, so stopping to use…

Agreed. I just checked my setting and apparently did this "deny and post from camera roll" by default. I have no doubt I was just making a privacy conscious choice.