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Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

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Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#131

Post by AlwaysRock »

rbg246 wrote: post #54
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

Since net zero people are going to stop using Instagram from this coming out... Yes.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#132

Post by washadjeffmad »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #87
washadjeffmad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd be able to track what your eyes focused on and for how long, whether you wore glasses, were bald, your approximate age and ethnicity, whether you have facial hair, your reactions to content, and a lot of other behaviors and metrics that would never cross your mind. Instagram already does all of the above, but so does a lot of digital signage in shopping districts, in addition to tracking your BT HWID, to monit…

> your reactions to content do you actually "react" to content? Like chuckle or make any other facial expressions? I just scroll and scroll and scroll with a neutral expression.

Yes. Have you ever used one of those face swap filters that turns you into a funny character that mimics your facial expressions?

Well, how does it know?

A mirth-filled squint of the eyes, dilation of pupils at something unexpected, a tightening of the mouth signalling ennui, the movements that accompany a brief nasal exhalation at something on the nose to your taste in humor... all add to something.

You're not as implacable as you think.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#133

Post by [deleted] »

can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#134

Post by reaperducer »

maxsilver wrote: post #90
rbg246 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

> Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no chance of reputational damage there. Absolutely agree, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't think about it or didn't care. If 2020 has taught me anything, it's that a surprisingly high number of people / companies / groups managers and/or leaders, do not think about or care about long-term repercussions of the vast majority of their decisio…

If 2020 has taught me anything, it's that a surprisingly high number of people / companies / groups managers and/or leaders, do not think about or care about long-term repercussions of the vast majority of their decisions.

2020? I was thinking 1980. To my memory, it seems to have started with the Savings and Loan scandals, and gotten worse.

Companies went from optimizing for 100-year growth to optimizing for the next three months.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#135

Post by reaperducer »

bagacrap wrote: post #103
wheybags wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was the case, they wouldn't have claimed it was a bug. Besides, big tech companies have lost the benefit of the doubt.

Fb* has lost benefit of the doubt. I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys. Is it really so hard to keep them straight?

I don't understand why people read yet another story about FB's bad behavior somehow conclude all of big tech are bad guys.

For the same reason that people believe all politicians are evil, and the all lawyers kick puppies into a woodchipper for fun.

It's "otherism." Or to put it in gambling terms: Playing the odds.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#136

Post by heartbeats »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #88
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

> Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. This is about consumer trust. To the vast majority of consumers, a smartphone is a magic box with a lens and a display. What happens inside - how data is stored and processed, how the OS functions, how apps work,... - has been abstracted away behind those "UX optimized" interfaces you just mentioned. Co…

> Consumer don't buy black box devices because they trust the few big companies that manufacture the hardware and software: they buy them because there aren't any alternatives that provide the same level of convenience, and can solidly guarantee a due level of privacy as to what happens behind the screens.

They still consent to it, though. People do perceive it as acceptable, and use it to share their private information. If they don't want to use smartphones, they're free to move to another country.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#137

Post by danShumway »

spunker540 wrote: post #100
danShumway wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to have people post more photos and keep those metrics up But... that is data harvesting. When you upload photos to Facebook, you are giving them that data. That's not a conspiracy, that's just how Facebook's TOS works. It gets to look at the photos you upload and use that data to help build its internal profile for you. What's your definition of data harvesting? I would say that getting people to upload useful dat…

Photos and videos of people are not generally useful for ads. You know what is valuable? Actual purchase decisions sent in by advertisers. Photos and videos of people’s dogs and food and kids etc is strictly to entertain the other Facebook users and keep them coming back. An advertiser is willing to pay tons more to serve an ad to someone who has bought similar products in the past, and is likely to buy their product…

You're saying this with a lot of confidence, but I'm not certain I believe you.

When you have facial recognition software, photos are a contact graph. When they're photos that a user explicitly uploads, they often come with location data. All of that stuff is useful to advertisers.

Facebook can and does target ads based on who you know. If you upload a photo, and the metadata says it was taken today, and it has you location attached to it, and it shows you smiling next to your friend who's recently searched for the new Avengers movie, then yeah, it makes a lot of sense to show you an add for the new Avengers movie, because maybe the two of you will go to it.

It doesn't even need to be that detailed. Just knowing that you're that person's acquaintance means that now Facebook can suggest that person as a friend, it means that Facebook can add that person to its social graph if they're not currently on the service. Just knowing your location means that Facebook can advertise you something from a nearby store.

All of that is stuff that Facebook wants to know, all of that falls pretty squarely in the middle of the category of data harvesting. Not all data harvesting is just to serve ads, some of it is to know how to tailor the service to you to make you more active (so that you look at more ads), or to suggest friends (which increases your investment in the platform), or how to engineer the service in general (so that more people use it and look at ads).

> Not facial expressions while scrolling or group photos at restaurants.

Facebook used to analyze unposted status updates (where you type out the status and then delete it before you press post) so it could figure out why people were getting cold feet before sharing their thoughts[0]. You really, genuinely believe that they're not interested in your facial expressions? You really, genuinely believe that nobody at Facebook is looking into research like identifying branded products inside of user-uploaded photos?

[0]: https://slate.com/technology/2013/12/facebook-self-censorshi...

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#138

Post by reaperducer »

yoz-y wrote: post #118
CaptArmchair wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. This is about consumer trust. To the vast majority of consumers, a smartphone is a magic box with a lens and a display. What happens inside - how data is stored and processed, how the OS functions, how apps work,... - has been abstracted away behind those "UX optimized" interfaces you just mentioned. Co…

> So, next time you're in public, try to pay attention to this: how many people have taped off the camera of their devices? I usually do pay attention and so far I have seen one person with a camera taped over. This is just not a thing, no matter how the media wants it to be.

My company's health insurance company spiffed everyone camera covers for their computers and phones. When we were in the office, I saw them everywhere, on both company-owned equipment, and on people's personal gear.

They had the health insurance company's logo on them, so when I saw one on a barista's laptop at the Starbucks down the street, I assume she got it from one of our employees and thought it was a good idea. Maybe people just don't know they're available, or cheap.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#140

Post by parliament32 »

On a side note, IG works perfectly fine being denied the Camera permission. In fact, it doesn't even complain about it until you try to take a picture in-app... and most users' workflow is taking pics with their phone's camera app (which is almost always better than IG's) and uploading the actual files to IG (you can still apply filters and everything else this way).
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