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Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

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Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#121

Post by fdeage »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #65
rbg246 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

Is it Facebook's fault that the OS had a bug that triggers the camera notification when the camera is in standby mode? There's no reputational damage because the world is already split between people who think FB is the devil and people who don't care.

You forgot a third kind: FB employees.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#122

Post by thrav »

koonsolo wrote: post #108
rbg246 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

I see you don't have much experience in development. It probably went more like this: business: "Opening the camera seems slow", dev: "it takes 200ms for the system to start it", "Can you make it faster?", "Not really, unless we keep the camera on", "Do that!", "Won't it have privacy issues?", "Don't worry about that". EDIT: And in the end business is correct, because nobody really cares about this. Every happy insta…

This is so true that at other companies it often takes a lawyer (in-house counsel) reminding product that something is legally precarious to stop it, and they still push.

For something that has no real legal ramifications, there’s no way you’re stopping it.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#123

Post by thrav »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #72
numpad0 wrote: post #67

Being lawful-evil person I am, I once imagined a “news” app such that display content or suggestion ever so unnoticeably slightly change depending on how user behaves judged by device camera. A facial expression ML model would be trained beforehand so camera data would not have to be collected, but only pushed to users along app updates, and content would be analyzed and encoded at server side to determine what users…

I wonder if people make distinct enough facial expressions while reading online content for this to work. For myself, I pretty much stare blankly at the screen the whole time without much change in my expression. The ML would have to be very good at detecting slight nuance.

Wasn’t there a proof of concept for exactly this about how social media apps were probably already doing this? I believe I saw it on HackerNews. It was a site where you gave them camera access and then ran something like a 60 second experiment. Seemed academic.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#124

Post by [deleted] »

rbg246 wrote: post #54
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#125

Post by effingwewt »

loriverkutya wrote: post #48
zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

The more I see this excuse the more I realize Apple wants people lazy and dependent on them. They have all the trust, and that is bad.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#126

Post by diffsensitivity »

koonsolo wrote: post #108
rbg246 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

I see you don't have much experience in development. It probably went more like this: business: "Opening the camera seems slow", dev: "it takes 200ms for the system to start it", "Can you make it faster?", "Not really, unless we keep the camera on", "Do that!", "Won't it have privacy issues?", "Don't worry about that". EDIT: And in the end business is correct, because nobody really cares about this. Every happy insta…

That’s how the explicit narrative goes.

The implicit one we can never admit to is something like: Instagrammer has a different sensitivity for 200ms than the dev and never cared.

Dev has to justify his egregious salary by manufacturing statistics to “experiment with engagement” nevermind the literal reality of having such a gadget is titillating as is, manufacturing belief that specific dev making a camera respond 200ms faster is what really made the app is where that paper is.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#129

Post by SilasX »

koonsolo wrote: post #108
rbg246 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

I see you don't have much experience in development. It probably went more like this: business: "Opening the camera seems slow", dev: "it takes 200ms for the system to start it", "Can you make it faster?", "Not really, unless we keep the camera on", "Do that!", "Won't it have privacy issues?", "Don't worry about that". EDIT: And in the end business is correct, because nobody really cares about this. Every happy insta…

People will care a lot when news gets out that they were spying on a 13-year-old (or whatever) girl.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#130

Post by washadjeffmad »

srtjstjsj wrote: post #60
washadjeffmad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd be able to track what your eyes focused on and for how long, whether you wore glasses, were bald, your approximate age and ethnicity, whether you have facial hair, your reactions to content, and a lot of other behaviors and metrics that would never cross your mind. Instagram already does all of the above, but so does a lot of digital signage in shopping districts, in addition to tracking your BT HWID, to monit…

You think instagram needs to spy on you to get a picture of your face? Because the 1000s of photos you already uploaded aren't enough?

You're selecting the wrong authority here. That's exactly how Instagram's algorithm works, whether or not you or I think it.

In general, "you're not being paranoid enough" is a true statement.

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