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Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

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Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#71

Post by dathinab »

rbg246 wrote: post #54
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

The problem is I can see exactly that happening.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#72

Post by SkyMarshal »

numpad0 wrote: post #67

Being lawful-evil person I am, I once imagined a “news” app such that display content or suggestion ever so unnoticeably slightly change depending on how user behaves judged by device camera. A facial expression ML model would be trained beforehand so camera data would not have to be collected, but only pushed to users along app updates, and content would be analyzed and encoded at server side to determine what users…

I wonder if people make distinct enough facial expressions while reading online content for this to work. For myself, I pretty much stare blankly at the screen the whole time without much change in my expression. The ML would have to be very good at detecting slight nuance.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#73

Post by noworriesnate »

izacus wrote: post #41
Saint_Genet wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep doing malicious things, you no longer get to enjoy the benefit of doubt.

It's one thing to enjoy benefit of doubt, it's another to just make up utterly unbelievable fringe crap that can be explained by hundreds of other explanations.

Snowden revealed a lot of stuff that was the just domain of crazy fringe theories before. Anyone morally okay with facebook's known problems would also most likely be morally okay with spying on users like this. Hence, I agree that giving them the benefit of the doubt is irrational.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#74

Post by AndrewThrowaway »

Alex3917 wrote: post #66
wil421 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part where Tech Lead creates a YouTube channel. His Tesla is featured prominently.

"How I made the camera 200ms faster (as a millionaire)"

How I quit (was fired from) Facebook after making camera 150% faster which made me a millionaire (in 200ms).

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#75

Post by natch »

I wonder how unfettered Mark’s access is to all their data and systems. The answer to this question should be public in order to bolster trust, but as far as I know it is not.

More on topic, I doubt this particular feature is nefarious, but those who would spy often seem to rely on others’ doubt that it is happening.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#76

Post by rickyc091 »

_trampeltier wrote: post #23

Lately was also this thing, with App check always our clipboard. I wonder how many website does the same, and also check your clipboard all the time. And with more and more APIs in browsers, I wonder how many website start to listen and watch you.

Not even websites. Desktop apps also have access to your clipboard without any permissions. Can't wait until it becomes more common practice to provide an audit trail of any apps snooping on the clipboard.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#77

Post by jariel »

rbg246 wrote: post #54
can16358p wrote: post #9

Don't want to be the devil's advocate here but just because camera is on doesn't mean anything is being recorded. As an iOS developer who worked with apps that access camera frequently, I can confidently say that it's just a UX optimization. Starting the camera takes a brief few hundred milliseconds which is easily noticable from a user perspective. By keeping the camera ready, they are making the experience smoother…

So you are saying.. A developer went to their tech lead and said 'hey we can make the app much better by leaving the camera on all the time saves 200ms on camera startup time' Tech lead: this is brilliant no potential problems here Tech lead to management team: got this great new feature, we leave the camera on all the time makes the app 200ms faster. Management: wow that's great can't see any problem with that, no c…

No, he's saying that API usage is not obvious, things are complicated and not obvious and that mistakes happen.

I don't believe for one second that FB is going to be purposefully taking 'illegal videos' of people.

Nor do I believe Facebook is even evil. It's just a social network, end of story.

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#78

Post by AndrewThrowaway »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #72
numpad0 wrote: post #67

Being lawful-evil person I am, I once imagined a “news” app such that display content or suggestion ever so unnoticeably slightly change depending on how user behaves judged by device camera. A facial expression ML model would be trained beforehand so camera data would not have to be collected, but only pushed to users along app updates, and content would be analyzed and encoded at server side to determine what users…

I wonder if people make distinct enough facial expressions while reading online content for this to work. For myself, I pretty much stare blankly at the screen the whole time without much change in my expression. The ML would have to be very good at detecting slight nuance.

While your face might seem still, e.g. your heartbeat, your eye movements can reveal a lot.

I remember how I was blown away by this video a few years ago:

https://youtu.be/3rWycBEHn3s?t=171

Re: Facebook Accused of Watching Instagram Users Through Cameras

#79

Post by jariel »

loriverkutya wrote: post #48
zupreme wrote: post #45

This is why iOS is badly in need of a “Task Manager” and of an “Event Viewer”, so that users may easily audit what resources each app is currently accessing, and which resources they have accessed in the past, including logging each instance of camera or microphone use by any app. Apple has the power to easily mitigate these concerns - yet they do not. Why?

Because my mother is using an iphone and nothing you described would make sense for her. She is pretty good with tech and understands how computers and phones work, but she just does not want to browse a process list to see which process is using the camera.

You make a good point with 'your mom' but this would be an extraneous feature, not necessary and therefore not in the 'regular case path' of behaviours.

So I think it's a valid thing.

Though iOS is getting out of hand with complexity these days.

Sometimes I want a dumb phone.

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