Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

forumserver.twoplustwo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 402 posts

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#81

Post by scott_s »

nika wrote: post #7

Reagan is the one who signed "asset forfeiture" into law. I remember at the time reading newspaper articles claiming this was "just going to be used to keep drugs off the streets" and how "law enforcement are outgunned and now can defend themselves against drug dealers". It was obvious to me then that this was a violation of due process. Also, it is not authorized by the constitution, and thus every act of seizure un…

"It could be drug money" says the "law enforcement officers" who take life savings and then spend it on themselves.

Reference?

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#83

Post by nika »

jonknee wrote: post #75
nika wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa is a currency. So are travellers checks and regular old checking checks and coupons. All of these are also denominated in dollars. If you were to take some time and study the actual laws, and also check out the legal opinions, from members of boards of federal reserve branches, as well as the secret service and lawyers that were obtained before the Liberty Dollar project was started you'd recognize just how absu…

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.html It seems extraordinarily cut and dry to me, but I'm not a lawyer (and by your post I assume you're not either).

It would be cut and dry if you could show any "utterances" from the Liberty Dollar / NORFED, where they represented their products as US government money.

They did not, and further, they were careful to put disclaimers on their warehouse receipts, and various features on the physical pieces to make it clear that this was not being represented as government money. For instance, ever piece contained a copyright statement on it, something the government would not do.

For further details (since the judge ordered the liberty dollar website taken down): http://www.chambersburglibertydollar.com/disclaimer.htm

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#84

Post by blhack »

TY wrote: post #36

It's real and it's happening now. I have nothing to do with online gambling (anymore), but this just sent shivers down my spine. Who's next? The US Government has just strengthened the case of those who were concerned about having parts of Internet infrastructure under the control of the US government. Domain seizures have been happening for a while (i.e. [1]), but this case will probably be the highest profile to da…

Unfortunately, I highly doubt that this will be seen as disturbing by the main stream.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#85

Post by ericb »

eftpotrm wrote: post #50

While I'm not at all surprised to see this happening, I'm still astonished that the USA continues to try to stamp out gambling through legislation. I remember growing up being astonished at the number of references on USA TV shows to illegal gambling; I've never once come across it in the UK. I love cricket, but there's been a persistent series of match-fixing and spot-fixing allegations for years, almost exclusively…

The casino lobby would prefer that online gambling didn't exist. Therefore, since these online companies are not in the US and have no lobbyist money in play, they have no standing.

Voter preference, individual rights, domain name sanctity, jurisdiction, shortsightedness with regard to keeping control of TLD's, futility of the fight, all have no bearing when uncontested lobby money wants something, and doubly so when states think it will mean more tax dollars in their pockets.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#86

Post by llimllib »

scott_s wrote: post #81
nika wrote: post #7

Reagan is the one who signed "asset forfeiture" into law. I remember at the time reading newspaper articles claiming this was "just going to be used to keep drugs off the streets" and how "law enforcement are outgunned and now can defend themselves against drug dealers". It was obvious to me then that this was a violation of due process. Also, it is not authorized by the constitution, and thus every act of seizure un…

"It could be drug money" says the "law enforcement officers" who take life savings and then spend it on themselves. Reference?

This should get you started: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=forfei...

edited to add a feature article he wrote on it: http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/26/the-forfeiture-racket

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#87

Post by pbj »

nika wrote: post #7

Reagan is the one who signed "asset forfeiture" into law. I remember at the time reading newspaper articles claiming this was "just going to be used to keep drugs off the streets" and how "law enforcement are outgunned and now can defend themselves against drug dealers". It was obvious to me then that this was a violation of due process. Also, it is not authorized by the constitution, and thus every act of seizure un…

This is actually increasingly common, and in some states the burden of proof is on you to prove that anything confiscated was not purchased with money obtained illegally. In addition, many states allow 100% of the profit from what is confiscated to go directly to police departments. One department where I used to live has both a police Hummer and a Tank. You can read about a state by state study at:

http://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeitu... [Note: PDF]

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#88

Post by cynicalkane »

blhack wrote: post #71
cynicalkane wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa is a currency. So are travellers checks and regular old checking checks and coupons If you were to take some time to study the laws--or high school economics--or the cardholder agreement you sign when you apply for a Visa card--you'd know this is incorrect. I bet you have "research" that tells you that credit cards are currency or something, contrary to very basic legal and economic interpretations of the word.…

Could you elaborate on this for me? It sounds like what they're saying makes perfect sense (btw, there is really no need for the --or high school economics-- jab). Visa is an abstraction of my money. A better example would be american express gift cards. I can buy american express gift cards, and I can trade these gift cards or goods or services. The gift cards have a non-static real-value that is tied to the United…

Currency refers to physical money. A gift card isn't "money" because it's only a medium of exchange at a few specific places. Credit cards aren't currency because they are simply pointers to a line of credit, which isn't physical money.

The Liberty Dollar guy was found guilty of imitating U.S. currency. The OP believes the application of the law is unjust because, mentally, he's equivocated currency with other numismatic instruments. But this is wrong.

The high school economics jab is to call attention to the OP's lack of knowledge in something he thinks he knows a lot about. My high school did teach economics.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#89

Post by tybris »

vnorby wrote: post #5

WHOA, that's really big news for the poker industry. These are all very large, very big businesses (talking billions of dollars) in the US. Can anyone confirm if their poker clients are still functioning properly?

I don't know about the client, but I imagine fulltiltpoker.co.uk will work just fine for the foreseeable future. There is no force in this universe that will keep the British from gambling... and if there is, they already have bets on it.
Post reply on HN