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FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

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Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#61

Post by andrewbadera »

nika wrote: post #7

Reagan is the one who signed "asset forfeiture" into law. I remember at the time reading newspaper articles claiming this was "just going to be used to keep drugs off the streets" and how "law enforcement are outgunned and now can defend themselves against drug dealers". It was obvious to me then that this was a violation of due process. Also, it is not authorized by the constitution, and thus every act of seizure un…

Wish I could undo my upvote. The seizure is still subject to court proceedings. FUD.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#62

Post by albedoa »

davidcann wrote: post #47
eof wrote: post #18

Wow this is huge. I used to play online poker for a living, I had a decent chunk of cash locked up for almost a year when they came down on online poker previously (UIGEA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act#Internet_gambling... It's worth noting that these are NOT American companies. It doesn't look like anyone (players) has had their assests seized; but this is bad news for a lot of people. It also appears p…

The real issue here is the seizure of domain names. US citizens who gamble online know full well that they're breaking the law and are subject to lose assets. The domain seizures are very troubling, though. Edit: There seems to be some dispute over where it's a crime to "participate" in different US states, but for the purposes of the "customer assests seized", the transaction is illegal, so it's to be expected that…

Um, what? Can you cite the law they "know" to be breaking?

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#63

Post by bjonathan »

slay2k wrote: post #56
davidcann wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue here is the seizure of domain names. US citizens who gamble online know full well that they're breaking the law and are subject to lose assets. The domain seizures are very troubling, though. Edit: There seems to be some dispute over where it's a crime to "participate" in different US states, but for the purposes of the "customer assests seized", the transaction is illegal, so it's to be expected that…

Um, no, US citizens don't know that. If they did, smart professional players like Durrr and Ivey wouldn't keep multi-million dollar bankrolls online that are subject to loss at any time. That's just common sense.

they are red pro , they will be fine, the real risk is for middle/high stakes grinders who dont have the same relationship with the big sites and as OP said risk to have their money freeze for some time (a US player is already reporting on 2+2 that he cant withdraw his money from FT)

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#65

Post by gst »

mycroftiv wrote: post #12

This is a disaster. A very sad day for the internet. We are entering into pastor Niemoller territory here: first they came for the file-sharing websites, next they came for the online gambling websites, and I would guess that Bitcoin is probably next in line, and following that, Magic: the Gathering online and the MMORPGs.

No. It's not a disaster. Just the end of the .com/.net/.org era. As soon as people realize that .com/.net/.org are not neutral, but under US jurisdication, they will move to other TLDs operated in countries with more liberal laws.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#66

Post by barefoot »

mrtron wrote: post #32

Online gambling is legal almost everywhere - how does the FBI have the ability to do this?

They are using a TLD (top level domain name) operated by a US company (Verizon).

The government hasn't gone out of it's jurisdiction, technically speaking.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#68

Post by generalk »

davidcann wrote: post #47
eof wrote: post #18

Wow this is huge. I used to play online poker for a living, I had a decent chunk of cash locked up for almost a year when they came down on online poker previously (UIGEA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE_Port_Act#Internet_gambling... It's worth noting that these are NOT American companies. It doesn't look like anyone (players) has had their assests seized; but this is bad news for a lot of people. It also appears p…

The real issue here is the seizure of domain names. US citizens who gamble online know full well that they're breaking the law and are subject to lose assets. The domain seizures are very troubling, though. Edit: There seems to be some dispute over where it's a crime to "participate" in different US states, but for the purposes of the "customer assests seized", the transaction is illegal, so it's to be expected that…

You do understand that gambling online isn't illegal in the United States, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIGEA

UIGEA "prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with the participation of another person in a bet or wager that involves the use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any federal or state law." but does not make it a crime for a citizen to engage in the activity.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#69

Post by nika »

cjeane wrote: post #31
nika wrote: post #7

Reagan is the one who signed "asset forfeiture" into law. I remember at the time reading newspaper articles claiming this was "just going to be used to keep drugs off the streets" and how "law enforcement are outgunned and now can defend themselves against drug dealers". It was obvious to me then that this was a violation of due process. Also, it is not authorized by the constitution, and thus every act of seizure un…

Constitutional law is so much more complicated than, "this is what the document says". What is happening is here is reprehensible, but I don't think you will find any defense against it in due process.

Actually, the document was written with the intention that anyone could read it and easily tell if their government was violating it or not. There have been a lot of people making up a body of work commonly called "Constitutional law" but much of that body of work seems to serve the purpose of trying to say that you can't just read it.

But if you read it, it is very clear.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

It is cut and dry. All of these siezures are not taking evidence, they are stealing property.

Money is property, it is not evidence of any crime, especially when it is electronic funds in a bank account.

Re: FBI seized PokerStars.com, FullTiltPoker.com, UB.com,... domain names

#70

Post by Vivtek »

eli wrote: post #42

Crazy. DC government just passed a bill allowing the city to offer online gambling. Will the FBI also sieze dclottery.com?

DEA raids California medical marijuana stores that are legal according to state law, so ... yeah, if they want to, they will.
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