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Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

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Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#81

Post by jamesteow »

kragen wrote: post #66

Some other important look-and-feel clones: Windows (copying MacOS) Lotus 1-2-3 (copying VisiCalc) GNU/Linux (copying Unix) Gosling Emacs (copying ITS and Multics Emacs), which eventually became GNU Emacs Excel (copying Lotus 1-2-3, to the point that VisiCalc slash commands still work in Excel last time I tried them about five years ago) OpenOffice (copying Microsoft Office) C compilers everywhere (copying the origina…

There's a big difference between copying conventions and literally copying the colour scheme/gradients.

Many of your examples have the competitor creating a slightly different style, be it button style or menus. Open Office/Microsoft Office. Windows versus MacOS.

Hell, look at DuckDuckGo and Bing. Sure they are both search engines (just like Google) but they still have a slightly different visual identity and results page than Google.

HN is very similar to Reddit but still tries to do small things that differentiate it.

The original post looks like literal translation of Tumblr. Even if they changed the colors so that it fit with it's own identity I could agree with your point but this is not even close to being the case.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#82

Post by cpeterso »

bad_user wrote: post #69
uniclaude wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in China (well, 40% of my time), work for a social network, and I think you're wrong. Tumblr is sometimes blocked here, and I would bet that it's going to have the same destiny as Facebook and Twitter here. The local Facebook clones work very well here, as does the local Twitter clone (that employs something like 500people). Meanwhile, the "originals" are blocked, and only people who can access internet throug…

So basically this is a business model that can only survive because of restrictions set by the current government. What will happen if China and the US reach some kind of agreement, and unlocking online US-services will be part of it? AND when cloning physical goods (like phones, cars, clothes, shoes, whatever) -- you can export them, since people are willing to pay lower prices for clones. How can you export a Tumbl…

The Chinese clones may have locked in a critical mass of users who are unlikely to switch to (English language) US sites like Facebook and Twitter.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#83

Post by jff »

jhc wrote: post #62
iantimothy wrote: post #6

I can't remember where I got this quote from, but early on I learned that there are basically three ways to beat the US in technology: 1. The Japanese Way - Innovate By Leapfrogging. 2. The Indian Way - Innovate By Piggybacking. 3. The Chinese Way - Innovate By Copying. Looking at how things have been over the years, China isn't going to stop a strategy that has worked across industries.

I like the list of strategies, but I have to question calling any one of them "The Chinese Way." I mean, here in the US, companies leapfrog, piggyback, and copy all the time -- often within the same product. So you might as well call it all "The American Way." With the size and diversity of the tech industries in Japan, China, and India, we can probably assume they're using The American Way too. Which I think is grea…

Well, plenty of American companies copy, producing essentially the same product with their own name on it, often trying to make it look similar to the original--I'm thinking of store-brand food here, "Mountain W" soda from Wegmans for example. The Chinese methods of copying typically seem more deceptive; "Somy" and "Sarnsung" electronics for example, although sometimes the cloners just throw on the "real" name anyway. Of course, this becomes easier when all these companies do their manufacturing in China anyway, and it just takes an unscrupulous manufacturer to make an extra run to sell as "knock-offs". Oh, and there's always this hilarious story: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/01/technology/01pirate.html

I do agree though that the American way is basically to do whatever you need to make a good profit, be it coming up with the next great product (the iPod), ride along with a great product (the companies that make iPod docks/sleeves/cables/whatever), or copy a great product (Zune, and didn't that turn out well?). I just think the American copies are slightly more ethical than some of the Chinese ones.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#84

Post by jff »

blader wrote: post #30
holdenc wrote: post #10

Tumblr will have the last laugh here. There's practically no market for tasteful online advertising or paid software in China. So, while he might rack-up users it will be hard to monetize this.

Tencent is the second largest Internet company in the world, and it monetizes primarily through virtual goods, including blog themes. Chinese users don't buy software, but they do pay for online services.

Tencent is... unbelievable. I saw that huge piece of crap IM client on the PC of basically every Chinese grad student I knew. I also recently found out that their QQPlayer media player violates the GPL by including code from ffmpeg without any attribution or licenses; combine that with the way their IM client used to, and still may, censor messages, and I'm wondering what the hell else they're up to! :)

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#85

Post by kragen »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #75
kragen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though there is something wrong with directly copying UI elements with just a text change - that should be completely frowned upon and called out imho. Almost all of my examples could be accurately described that way in their first version. Maybe not Windows 1.0, not Facebook, and I think not Wordpress, and there may have been a couple of other exceptions. MercadoLibre still looks exactly like eBay to me.

That's because it's eBay's Latin American partner and eBay has a 19.5% ownership interest in MercadoLibre - not to mention eBay sold off iBazar to MercadoLibre in that process.

No, that's not why. It looked like that from the beginning, long before eBay bought into them.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#86

Post by kragen »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #80
kragen wrote: post #66

Some other important look-and-feel clones: Windows (copying MacOS) Lotus 1-2-3 (copying VisiCalc) GNU/Linux (copying Unix) Gosling Emacs (copying ITS and Multics Emacs), which eventually became GNU Emacs Excel (copying Lotus 1-2-3, to the point that VisiCalc slash commands still work in Excel last time I tried them about five years ago) OpenOffice (copying Microsoft Office) C compilers everywhere (copying the origina…

"I'm not sure who to credit with the modern blog, with its comment threads, "after the jump", and permalinks." LiveJournal had them all, no idea if it was the first (as you show, it doesn't matter much).

LJ and Blogger were contemporaries. Frontier's blogging features were a little earlier. Among the three, not sure which ones invented the things I identify above as "the modern blog".

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#87

Post by bryne »

JoachimSchipper wrote: post #31
bryne wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Windows clone the Mac UI right down to the color and pixel and then replace the Apple logo? I think the bashing here is well-deserved, above and outside the discussion of whether China has a demonstrated economy of copying (it does). Also, there's a special place in hell for people who can't just come out and call a clone a clone.

I agree with your first paragraph, but "a special place in hell"?

For many years I've dealt with clients who were incredulous when I told them "no, we can't/won't just clone Yahoo/Facebook/etc" when a pixel-for-pixel copy was precisely what they wanted. There's an important creative and IP distinction between stealing concepts and cloning every aspect that some people just don't grok.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#89

Post by VladRussian »

my understanding may be wrong and whoever knows better please correct me if so. The copying in Chinese culture isn't a "vice of stealing", it is more like a "virtue of modesty and respect to the masters". I.e. taking a clean canvas and trying to paint something original is like an arrogant statement that one can come up with something better than using that canvas to make a good copy of a great work of a great master. And only when the one has perfected his skills and craft, it is appropriate to make original contribution, say add/modify a couple of details to the copy of the great work.

Re: Former Google VP Kai-Fu Lee Got a Nickname, Start-Copy Lee

#90

Post by [deleted] »

bryne wrote: post #87
JoachimSchipper wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your first paragraph, but "a special place in hell"?

For many years I've dealt with clients who were incredulous when I told them "no, we can't/won't just clone Yahoo/Facebook/etc" when a pixel-for-pixel copy was precisely what they wanted. There's an important creative and IP distinction between stealing concepts and cloning every aspect that some people just don't grok.

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