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The Battle over Dyslexia

theguardian.com

31–40 of 86 posts

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#31

The debate seems to be around whether the word dyslexia should be used, but the condition --- however named --- exists anyway. The proposed phrase "struggling with reading comprehension" is no less broad, or actually more broad, than _dyslexia_, and in my opinion brings no additional value to the situation. I've known a person diagnosed with Dyslexia, and he was simultaneously one of the most well-read, eloquent pers…

"the condition --- however named --- exists anyway"

"Even words he had to write daily (being a teacher and all), he couldn't spell with high accuracy."

It is not clear to me what that "condition" would mean in China, where "spelling" is not an issue (or at least has a completely different meaning than it does in English) and where it is relatively common for people to be able to read characters but fail to remember how to write them. It is also unclear to me how anyone could have a "condition" in which they struggle to spell if we did not have arbitrary spelling conventions i.e. if we used a purely phonetic writing system.

None of this is to say that there is no truly "universal" concept of dyslexia i.e. a neurological difficulty involving difficulty connecting symbols to meaning. In fact this article suggests that such a thing does exist and can be observed across various writing systems:

https://dyslexiaida.org/the-myths-and-truths-of-dyslexia/

A telling sentence from the conclusion: "It is important to note, however, that prevalence rate is highly sensitive to the criteria used to define dyslexia..." I would argue that a "true" medical/psychological condition should not be so dependent on specific cultural practices like spelling rules.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#32
The case study was interesting. Those diagnosed in England get support from local government by covering cost of private school at £20k a year. Looking at the incentives, governments don't want lots of people diagnosed as it costs them. £20k is a huge amount of money in the UK, top universities (Oxbridge) cost around £10k a year. I could see why many would not get the support they need and go undiagnosed.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#33
post #19

I'm surprised Astigmastism is not mentioned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism Astigmatism is fairly common in the population, results in blurry vision which impacts reading and thus impacts education. It often also results in behavioral issues from the frustration caused in kids with blurry vision who don't know how to express that's the problem. Anecdotal experience of a couple family members who struggled,…

Testing for vision issues such as astigmatism is usually performed before some one is proclaimed to be dyslexic.

Dyslexic here. I don't know how universal it is, but I definitely was receiving eye tests in school before reading tests which lead to a misdiagnosis. I was only 6 or 7 so I don't remember if it was specifically astigmatism or some other eye condition, but I was misdiagnosed as having eye problems a year before I was finally diagnosed with dyslexia.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#34

I'm surprised the article only mentions in passing the aspect of dyslexia that I always heard as the defining condition, that letters get easily mixed up or moved around (I'm no expert, nor dyslexic, although I had some friends in school who were). Is that the issue for most people with dyslexia or is that just a pop-culture simplification?

It's just a simplification, many people experience dyslexia differently, but for some people with dyslexia that may be a good way to describe to someone what they experience. It's not actually a medical diagnosis, though can achieve the qualifications to test for it, it's a learning disability that doesn't have a well understood physilogical mechanism behind it.

For me I was slow to learn to read, and was in remedial classes until halfway through elementary school, but I was eventually able to get it down and am now a very active reader with an average reading pace. Spelling was the issue that never went away for me. When I try to spell a word I can remember the general set of letters it's composed of, but knowing the precise order, or if a word ends in one or two ls, are things I really struggle with. I'm constantly having to look up the same words over and over, It just doesn't stick.

My first job was a short term remote developing contract. My coworkers thought I was foreign for the first few weeks because of my poor spelling in code comments. It's better when I have access to good spelling or grammar checkers, but often times I misspell a word so completely that even the software has no idea what I'm trying to say. I also still mess up you're/your and their/there/they're all the time. In my head words are auditory not visual, so I have to put extra effort into resolving homophones.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#35
post #27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dyslexia also has an IQ component which means those with low IQ are not dyslexic even if they otherwise have the same symptoms. Perhaps the definition needs to change? Note the above is from the article which is focused on the UK. It could be different in other countries.

> Dyslexia also has an IQ component which means those with low IQ are not dyslexic even if they otherwise have the same symptoms. A person with IQ 100 (or whatever the mean IQ is) learning to read slower than average is different than a person with IQ 60 learning to read slower than average. You cannot completely remove the IQ component.

But doesn't the article make the case that both of your example children need the same treatment?

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#36
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do have a term: slow to learn to read. There are dozens of reasons a child can be slow to learn how to read. They could have not have access to education. They could has poor eye sight. They could be malnourished. They could have difficulties learning in general. Dyslexia means "Slow to learn how to read, despite no obvious influencing factors." It's a bit of a catch-all. There might be treatments for dyslexic c…

“Dyslexia has more than 3 million cases in the US every year.” If interpreted as “3 million _new_ cases every year, and dyslexia being incurable, with a life expectancy of 70 years, that would mean way over half the population of the USA would be dyslexic. I seriously doubt that. So, what do you mean by “every year”?

I typed "dyslexia" into Google, and on the side bar overview it says "More than 3 million US cases per year"

Edit: I dug a little deeper. It's 5-15% of the population. http://www.ldonline.org/article/10784/

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#37
post #27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dyslexia also has an IQ component which means those with low IQ are not dyslexic even if they otherwise have the same symptoms. Perhaps the definition needs to change? Note the above is from the article which is focused on the UK. It could be different in other countries.

> Dyslexia also has an IQ component which means those with low IQ are not dyslexic even if they otherwise have the same symptoms. A person with IQ 100 (or whatever the mean IQ is) learning to read slower than average is different than a person with IQ 60 learning to read slower than average. You cannot completely remove the IQ component.

Their point might be that the ability to read, has a non-zero influence on how intelligence as well knowledge; both of which are what IQ tests try to measure. The two signal values are related to an unknown degree.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#38

The debate seems to be around whether the word dyslexia should be used, but the condition --- however named --- exists anyway. The proposed phrase "struggling with reading comprehension" is no less broad, or actually more broad, than _dyslexia_, and in my opinion brings no additional value to the situation. I've known a person diagnosed with Dyslexia, and he was simultaneously one of the most well-read, eloquent pers…

"the condition --- however named --- exists anyway" "Even words he had to write daily (being a teacher and all), he couldn't spell with high accuracy." It is not clear to me what that "condition" would mean in China, where "spelling" is not an issue (or at least has a completely different meaning than it does in English) and where it is relatively common for people to be able to read characters but fail to remember h…

> It is not clear to me what that "condition" would mean in China

If you said so because I'm Chinese and you wonder what I meant, in this specific example, I'm talking about a British person writing English. You know, a good number of people in China also write English all the time. ;)

With regards to Chinese characters, not only do people forget how to write characters sometimes, but also some people do have problems recognizing mis-written characters, e.g. a missing stroke, an extra stroke, etc.

> It is also unclear to me how anyone could have a "condition" in which they struggle to spell if we did not have arbitrary spelling conventions.

I agree, if hypothetically there is only one way to pronounce words, and only one way to spell a syllable, this would be less of a problem, as the person can deduce the correct spelling if memory fails. There are still other factors, like speed and error rate, that the hypothetical language might not solve.

Although, I imagine it would be hard to replace the natural languages in human society at this point.

> I would argue that a "true" medical/psychological condition should not be so dependent on specific cultural practices like spelling rules.

If the actual cause of the condition is triggered by a specific cultural practice, I don't see why the condition cannot be referring to such practice.

It would be similar to how when a condition is caused by occupational practices, its medical description will refer to the occupational practices.

At this point, we don't have a universal definition dyslexia, and I don't think that's because the is cultural specific, but simply that we don't know what's happening. Our recognition of the condition is quite superficial, and even within a single language, a universal and precise definition has not yet been contrived.

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#39

I'm surprised Astigmastism is not mentioned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism Astigmatism is fairly common in the population, results in blurry vision which impacts reading and thus impacts education. It often also results in behavioral issues from the frustration caused in kids with blurry vision who don't know how to express that's the problem. Anecdotal experience of a couple family members who struggled,…

[deleted]

Re: The Battle over Dyslexia

#40
I hazard that this is one of those places where everyone is anecdata, and doing the maths (well.. statistics) underpinning this, is going to be the main problem for choosing rational paths out. At 5-15% of the population, its got significant economic consequences. The investment of dollars in education and child psychology, research, teaching, will pay back. So it should be a no-brainer, but people are going to get tied up in knots on the anecdata, instead of the underlying trends.

I also think that like "headache" its a symptom label, not an underlying causative statement. There are many fake cures of headaches, and some which work, some of the time, for some specific causes of headaches. If you label it migraine, it doesn't get any better because again, its a symptom label more than an actual specific thing much of the time.

Dyslexia not having a single root cause won't admit of a single fix.

I don't doubt reading difficulties exist. I'm a bibliophile, and live surrounded by books since childhood, but now read almost exclusively my kindle and my reading behaviours have changed, and not entirely for the better. I skim read since childhood, and re-read books frequently, discovering new meaning missed in the previous skims. This has upsides, (the pleasure of re-reading is enhanced: new things!) and downsides (it infuriates the authors of detailed, dense writing of substance who need me to read it properly and recall it to engage with them in work)

Anecdata!

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