Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#181

Post by jariel » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

kazen44 wrote: post #174

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about the EU is, it's not a democratic government. It's atreaty organization that sometimes takes on responsibilities like a government. This dual identity has been a boon in some political situations in the past, but it is also a serious liability. Von der Leyen got the job in a usual way for a treaty organization, but she is much more political than some technocrat. There are factions that like it each wa…

> The thing about the EU is, it's not a democratic government. It's atreaty organization that sometimes takes on responsibilities like a government. what? This opinion seems to be highly uninformed about how the EU and it's actual bodies work. i can vote for EU elections and representatives in the european parlement. Also the european commision and the council consist of either parties elected in the national electio…

"This opinion seems to be highly uninformed about how the EU and it's actual bodies work."

" the european commision and the council consist of either parties elected in the national elections"

For lambasting others as uninformed, you should check your facts first. The EU Commission is not made up of elected officials, moreover, the EU has no obligation whatsoever to follow the results of parliamentary elections.

The 'proportional' makeup of the assembly is irrelevant if they are mostly powerless - by far the most powerless legislative assembly in the free world.

" The way of elections in the EU is roughly the same as what happens in most if not all EU member states"

This is really not true. The leaders of various parties, their platforms etc. are all well known during the course of EU member state elections, moreover, EU member state legislative bodies have the power to sanction, remove the executive, and of course to actually legislate.

Edit: EU members states have some of the best and most representative democracies in the world, it's such a blatant contrast at the EU level, it's hard to forgive people for not seeing why things are the way they are.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#182

Post by j-pb » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

ArkVark wrote: post #167

orbifold wrote: post #95

As someone that has invented novel algorithms I still feel Patents are a net negative especially for software. I just wish EU would be a better place for „startup“ innovation. My experience with the university infrastructure in that area isn’t great:

The EU is not a great place for innovation, period. Here are the major problems: 1. No common language 2. Incredibly high taxes, particularly sales taxes 3. Unfinished transition out of Communism in many Eastern Countries 4. Preference for cheap illegal labor instead of automation This could be solved by: 1. Formalising an 'EU English' language so that schools teaching it can open up around the continent and families…

Immigration is NOT the issue. Corrupt government and corporatocracy is.

With all those subsidies going to coal, oil, cars, planes and whatnot, we could pay and educate all the immigrants a thousand fold, and make them a super producive labour force.

You're gonna be a kick ass employee if you're motivated enough to risk your life and travel for years, for education and a better job.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#183

Post by Perseids » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

thefounder wrote: post #162

iterativ wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want more or less government spending ? They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation). They want less or more police ? Reform the prison system (even dissolve it), maybe ? What are their views on immigration ? Multiculturalism ? Should we tax the wealthy more or less ? Of course, there are different polit…

>> Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" For some reasons I thought Europe has an aging population issue and demographic decline not overpopulation. >> families with more than two parents I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.

>> families with more than two parents

> I never heard of this unless you consider divorced people.

Look for articles concerning co-parenting, that's where its most often discussed. Wikipedia: "Co-parenting is an enterprise undertaken by two or more adults who together take on the socialization, care, and upbringing of children for whom they share equal responsibility[1] Co-parents may include a variety of configurations, including a mother and a father, two mothers, two fathers, a parent with an adult sibling or grandparent, or a parent and another adult relative. The co-parent relationship differs from an intimate relationship between adults in that it focuses solely on the child."

The other typical configuration would be in polyamorous relationships, when more than two of the partners decide to take responsibility of the child. Granted "typical" is a bit of a difficult word when we're talking about niche concepts. Most of my friends and coworkers have never heard about co-parenting or any other of the more diverse and sometimes complex family-alike structures, unless they concern failed relationships (see divorces). Which is kind of a bummer, that only failure in previous relationships motivates them to experiment with other concepts.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#184

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

enaaem wrote: post #47

skocznymroczny wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

A lot of political labels have a different, often opposite, meaning in Europe compared to the US. A liberal in Europe refers to classical liberalism. We also have many political parties, so a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative. Politics is more nuanced.

>" a liberal here is not necessary a christian conservative" //

They're pretty much opposite sides of the political spectrum in UK. Where are they anything other than that?

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#185

Post by srean » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

searchableguy wrote: post #101

tssva wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like software patents but I have a hard time buying that it will limit investment further. It hasn't significantly done so in the US where software patents have long existed. I imagine it may spur investment because investors see software patents as protecting their investments in startups from both other startups and established companies. Edited to correct a typo kindly pointed out by a comment below.

Patents in other industries negatively affected innovation for decades. 3d printers are a prime example where recently expired patents resulted in real progress. Those patents will affect open source which no other industry has adopted to the extent software has. Even hardware is being open sourced now as a cultural influence. Can you point me to any other industry where small teams or individuals can build and learn…

Codecs and compression are another biggie. Much code gets rewritten to work around scorched earth.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#186

Post by zoobab » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

Quanttek wrote: post #151

zoobab wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"opposed on public policy grounds, i.e. negative effects software patents and increased cost of litigation (and maybe that should've been done during the negotiations on the treaty)." Problem is that the Court Fees were decided after the treaty has been signed, by this administrative committee. And they are defeating the purpose of "making the whole system cheaper", as it would raise the cost of litigation for a simp…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this supposed price increase in Stjema's analysis only based on the maximum reimbursement allowance for lawyers? Hence, this only pertains to the potential for increased costs, not actual increased costs. Also, the obvious advantage of a European court is that one does not need to enforce one's patent in all State jurisdictions separately, right? Stjema shows how this duplication is…

The actual percentage of cross-border litigation, now that the UK has left, is around 7% of all cases. 93% of cases are national only, and will suffer from an increase of costs just for the beauty of having a pan-European court.

For the legal side and the rules of procedure, we have been informed from several high profile lawyers (one being on the bench of one of those decisions) that this would not survive a test in front of the ECHR, once the UPC is running.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#187

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

fluffernutter wrote: post #94

tssva wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like software patents but I have a hard time buying that it will limit investment further. It hasn't significantly done so in the US where software patents have long existed. I imagine it may spur investment because investors see software patents as protecting their investments in startups from both other startups and established companies. Edited to correct a typo kindly pointed out by a comment below.

Patents are really the stupidest things ever. The idea that something or an idea can be limited to a particular chain of causality is irrational. The only reason someone likes the idea of saying only one chain of causality should exist for an idea or, better put an idea that makes money, is because they themselves like money or think they can gain access to that money. Even the Cornoavirus has been shown to innovate,…

FWIW patents cover inventions, not ideas. An invention is there implementation of an idea. They also require the submission of a workable embodiment in order to be granted.

USA does blur the lines with its broad software patents and business method patents. But we in Europe have software patents to, they're just for inventions, not ideas.

This post is my personal opinion and does not relate to my employment.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#188

Post by hogFeast » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

Kudos wrote: post #33

CodeGlitch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries break international law all the time [1]. Doesn't make it right of course, but funny how in the UK's case it suddently makes headlines (no surprise really from the usual remainer-suspects). [1] https://www.insideover.com/politics/un-accuses-eu-of-violati...

It's not that funny, you must not understand how transformative the Good Friday Agreement was for Ireland and the UK, even if the typical Brit has no idea. It is a far broader reaching concern than software patents in Germany.

Er, you understand that the IRA was bombing UK cities? They bombed a hotel and almost killed the Prime Minister...yes, most Brits are very aware of the GFA (I am barely out of my 20s, and I lived in London and the constant bomb threats are something I remember...this is the reason why some train stations in the UK have no bins, they were a main IRA target).

Also, what most people who get their opinions on the GFA from people in the EU (largely dictated by Irish Catholics who believe that Northern Ireland will become part of Ireland) is that introducing a border within the UK is not any less of a problem than introducing one in Ireland. The UK govt's plan was to implement a solution which didn't cause any friction, it is clear now that all of the implementation was left to the UK and the EU washed it's hands of everything (again, the whole principle of GFA is that this is everyone's problem). If you are a Protestant in Northern Ireland though, the EU's position is/has been very worrying and contrary to the GFA in every degree (a principle of the GFA is that Northern Ireland is part of the UK, the EU issuing legal opinions and advising the Irish govt that NI would still be part of the EU if it left the UK does not suggest they understand what the GFA says at a fundamental level).

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#189

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:22 PM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #125

orbifold wrote: post #95

As someone that has invented novel algorithms I still feel Patents are a net negative especially for software. I just wish EU would be a better place for „startup“ innovation. My experience with the university infrastructure in that area isn’t great:

Strong patent laws stop innovation at the research stage. Derivative works, such as turning research into a startup or a public company, becomes rent seeking. Where in the world can you escape this rent seeking?

There's a lot of innovation going on by patent filing companies, which shows your claim to be false.

Perhaps you intend to say it chills or hinders innovation - if so, do you have some statistical proof?

My personal opinion, unrelated to my employment.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#190

Post by Perseids » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #153

iterativ wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want more or less government spending ? They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation). They want less or more police ? Reform the prison system (even dissolve it), maybe ? What are their views on immigration ? Multiculturalism ? Should we tax the wealthy more or less ? Of course, there are different polit…

> "They accept that the structure of the family will change ? Example, families with more than two parents (that is a real possibility due to overpopulation)" What does this mean? How is alleged population related to family structure and sexual relations?

I think grandparent was alluding to a separation of the two concepts of sexual relations and family structure: (Two or more) People can decide to bring up a child together without being in a romantic/sexual relationship. (Two or more) People can be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship without sharing responsibility of a child of one of the partners. Under this prerequisite, a family is any close social connection surrounding children (and the closeness and type of closeness being the linchpin of whether the term applies – not every flat share is a family for instance).

Regarding overpopulation: One motivation that I've heard quite often is that one of the most effective ways to reduce your carbon footprint is to have one child less. This is always presented with the asterisk that this is of course a very personal decision and there is the understanding that this is not a standard under which you will be measured. Still, if you're just looking at the numbers, that's what you get. Sharing parentage with more than two people is an alluring way to achieve the same result, especially as it means you will retain more of your personal time when child care is shouldered by three (or more) people.