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UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

freespeechunion.org

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Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#71

Post by bennyp101 »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #18
bennyp101 wrote: post #11

It will no doubt fall at the last hurdle. Another attempt to 'control' the thing they don't understand, ignore any technical advisors, and play to the crowds. Unfortunately there are a vocal group who want little Johnny protected from the big bad internet, and who have no desire to educate him themselves, so want a Gov approved scheme - and these sort of plans fit nicely into that. Hopefully common sense prevails aga…

I've been really impressed by GDS, i know it's popular to bash on the gov but in this case, i really think it's mis-placed, they've been really good. Take a peek under the covers and see that their work was adopted in other nations too: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digit... Now if we're talking about a public tender then of course i agree completely. Are Capita still blocking new Army recrui…

Sure, I agree that a lot of what GDS have done is pretty cool - but it would more than likely fall to Capita (and probably somehow shoehorn G4S in there) - and disappear in a hole of money

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#72

Post by raxxorrax »

MiroF wrote: post #49
Karunamon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're talking about only the contents of twitter.com and not harassment that extends into real life and just happens to also happen on twitter? I'll take that bet.

I think you drastically underestimate stochasticity, the sheer number of people on twitter, and how actions at the margin can drive someone over a precipe.

I do think that more people were saved from suicide by having a community where they could just speak freely. That wouldn't necessarily be Twitter though.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#73

Post by pjc50 »

mythrwy wrote: post #53
jonplackett wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words can't hurt directly, in that exact moment, but the consequences of them sure can. There has to be a line doesn't there? Is outright racism, or encouraging others to kill or do other bad things OK, because it's just words?

There's a pretty clear line at incitement to violence.

Absolutely not. There's loads of stuff that makes it into mass shooter manifestoes that has clearly been part of inciting them to violence, but can't be cleanly traced back to a specific individual telling them to pull the trigger. Have a look at the subject of "stochastic terrorism".

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#74

Post by bennyp101 »

_jal wrote: post #17
bennyp101 wrote: post #11

It will no doubt fall at the last hurdle. Another attempt to 'control' the thing they don't understand, ignore any technical advisors, and play to the crowds. Unfortunately there are a vocal group who want little Johnny protected from the big bad internet, and who have no desire to educate him themselves, so want a Gov approved scheme - and these sort of plans fit nicely into that. Hopefully common sense prevails aga…

The scolds and prudes who are honestly concerned with Little Johnny are just stalking horses. This is about what it always is: power, control and money.

Not sure where the money would come from (other than backhand "take this content off") but yes, it would very well be seen as a move to limit the information - and keep those social media bubbles going

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#75

Post by pjc50 »

john_moscow wrote: post #44
umvi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem with freedom is that people abuse it and cause harm to others." Edit: (to be clear, I do not personally believe this, just offering a little insight as to how the "not insignificant majority" think)

I think, being offended at words is mostly a sign of one's own personal insecurity. Can you imagine a successful doctor or a business owner being seriously offended because someone on the Internet called them a bad word? I bet they would respond same way I do when my son calls me a "bad papa" for insisting he finishes lunch before getting a desert. The bigger, much bigger problem is the growing amount of people that…

> Can you imagine a successful doctor or a business owner being seriously offended because someone on the Internet called them a bad word?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Associati... : a journalist questioning some of the "alternative medicine" claims of chiropractors got them so offended they tried to sue him into silence.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/31/alex-jones-to-pay-100k-in-sand... : as a father, would you describe the fathers of the Sandy Hook victims as "insecure"?

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#76

Post by rvz »

djohnston wrote: post #2

The last 5 years have really made question the benefits of free speech in our hyperconnected world. My knee jerk reaction to defend free speech has certainly been dampened by the efficacy of disinformation campaigns in the West.

Yes. Free speech has its consequences as one can use this to suppress someone else that they don't like and completely silence them because of other reasons. It is now far worse online than ever before.

> My knee jerk reaction to defend free speech has certainly been dampened by the efficacy of disinformation campaigns in the West.

These disinformation and smear tactics is indeed mostly driven by almost every group in the political spectrum but certainly used by the extremes on both sides. In the online side of things, we shouldn't believe everything we see or hear these things on the internet because now: text, images, sound, video, livestreams and now historical archives can be faked and replaced by AI tools.

The worst part is: Everyone is now doing it, even the established media companies.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#77

Post by pjc50 »

yamrzou wrote: post #59
confounded wrote: post #38

I’m strongly opposed to just about everything the UK government has done or proposed involving the internet, but the ‘Free Speech Union’ is an awful source to have on HN. The FSU is entirely a product of the “culture wars” of the outrage manufacturing twitterati, and offers to protect members from “feminist professors”. The UK’s Open Rights Group is the closest thing to a UK EFF (founded by Doctorow), and is generall…

I didn't hear about The Free Speech Union until now. I don't understand why you would consider it an ‘awful source’ to have on HN. Here is an article I found by one of its directors for a more balanced view: https://archive.fo/bAMqm

An article by one of the parties about themselves cannot possibly be "balanced".

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#79

Post by louwrentius »

Hokusai wrote: post #57
justicezyx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a very unpopular ideal" I thought it is still very popular. But it just have very unpleasant experience when it was practiced according to its literal sense.

> But it just have very unpleasant experience when it was practiced according to its literal sense. "The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant."

This is exactly why the religion of free speech is nuts. It is always presented as something total and absolute.

But free speech is not absolute if you want a decent, humane society.

Invoking, hatred, violence, incorrect (medical) advice that can harm people, etc.

You have to walk a thin line, find a balance and that's ok.

Some people can't deal with that kind of ambiguity. They need absolutes.

Fuck them.

Re: UK government’s plans to regulate the internet are a threat to free speech

#80

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

confounded wrote: post #38

I’m strongly opposed to just about everything the UK government has done or proposed involving the internet, but the ‘Free Speech Union’ is an awful source to have on HN. The FSU is entirely a product of the “culture wars” of the outrage manufacturing twitterati, and offers to protect members from “feminist professors”. The UK’s Open Rights Group is the closest thing to a UK EFF (founded by Doctorow), and is generall…

The perspective of the specific people who might be censored seems pretty valuable, even if the Open Rights Group delivers a clearer argument.
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