Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#91

Post by jariel » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #75

jariel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That she is on the position is testament to the democratic dysfunction of the Union." ??? That she has her position is the most glaring evidence of 'democratic dysfunction'. Nobody voted for her, she was unknown before the election. The very few people that voted in the EU elected voted for something else, after the election 'the true powers' decided to push the ostensible candidate aside, and behind closed doors wi…

The president of the comission is basically a civil service job.

I get what you mean, but it's a civil service with constitutional powers :). And it's designed to 'one day' be 'Presidential'.

Von der Leyen, in her first speech talked about her want to create the 'United States of Europe'. Not only does this hint at the Presidential nature of the role, but also points out the problematic issue with 'lack of democracy' in that voters were told after the election that their leader has a plan for 'existential transformation'. This is not what a bureaucrat does.

As a funny example: imagine waking up in Nov. 2016 and being told that the 'US state delegates' had not actually decided to go with 'Mitt Romney', the official candidate, but they 'changed their minds' and went with some 'outsider' from New York named 'Donald Trump'.

All of that said - the EU is actually more thoughtful about tech legislation than the US gov for sure - that said, the EU is for the most part making rules that ostensibly 'protect' them from outside parties, it would be a different story if MS, FB and G were HQ'd in London, Antwerp and Lisbon.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#92

Post by david_arcos » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #56

skocznymroczny wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative doesn't really mean much anymore on its own. CDU might be considered conservative by Western European standards, but it's liberal by Eastern European standards.

Are there any major pan-european parties? (that are taken seriously)

There is one: https://european-pirateparty.eu

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#93

Post by czzr » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #72

pjc50 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusual not only because of the possible impact on the Northern Ireland peace treaty, but because it's an agreement that was only just made by the same government. Which makes the whole process look particularly stupid and insulting. It's also the deliberateness that has upset people - breaching a complex agreement inadvertently is very different from setting out to do it deliberately.

The EU do it all the time. But I guess that doesn't count for some reason or other...

Could you give one example? (Of making an agreement and then threatening to intentionally break it very soon after?)

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#94

Post by fluffernutter » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #28

tpetry wrote: post #7

As a german i am quite sure they will ratify software patents. The very sad part is the people deciding this have absolutely no understanding what they are doing and that they open the box of pandora. There is currently almost no invest money in european startups, and if everyone of these startups is liable for bogus software patents they will have absolutely no chance on getting big.

I don't like software patents but I have a hard time buying that it will limit investment further. It hasn't significantly done so in the US where software patents have long existed. I imagine it may spur investment because investors see software patents as protecting their investments in startups from both other startups and established companies. Edited to correct a typo kindly pointed out by a comment below.

Patents are really the stupidest things ever.

The idea that something or an idea can be limited to a particular chain of causality is irrational. The only reason someone likes the idea of saying only one chain of causality should exist for an idea or, better put an idea that makes money, is because they themselves like money or think they can gain access to that money.

Even the Cornoavirus has been shown to innovate, through mutation, by changing itself. It is not a single change, either. Many, many viruses change themselves to a new same same configuration over time. Now some may not, but some definitely do, which means that change is available to all.

Just because someone is able to get resources to patent an idea is not a good reason to allow them "protection" over another who did not have the resources, but still arrived intellectually at the same conclusion.

Are we to say all things we do are protected if they bring value? What about all the things we do not do that bring value? Will those be protected next?

If I had resources to spend on a thing, it would be to invent a space drive to get the fuck off this planet and away from all the greedy people.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#95

Post by orbifold » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

As someone that has invented novel algorithms I still feel Patents are a net negative especially for software. I just wish EU would be a better place for „startup“ innovation. My experience with the university infrastructure in that area isn’t great:

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#96

Post by orbifold » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

_Microft wrote: post #77

ctas wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem. In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she successfully evaded the punishment. Not long ago there's been a claim that her phone contains important evidence in support of the accusation, but it turned out that data on the phone had been "accidentally" wiped.

I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.

She did a bunch of pretty corrupt stuff while defense minister. She pushed for internet censorship.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#97

Post by Brakenshire » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

akerro wrote: post #17

pbowyer wrote: post #10

But only in a "limited and specific" way, so that's okay [UK in-joke] At least we're not the only country wanting to violate international agreements at present

>At least we're not the only country wanting to violate international agreements at present Countries do it all the time and there are conflicts because it all the time everywhere. UK is slightly different because EU is much stronger than UK, withdrawal agreement is important to keep food, medicine and skills flowing between borders. UK government is planning and making first successful steps towards breaking withdra…

The EU probably will lose the same in absolute terms, but it will be spread over 400 million people not 60 million. So in terms of rational policy making the EU should want a deal as much as the UK, but of course in practice if the impact is less diffuse it’s just less politically important.

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#98

Post by jaggirs » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #28

tpetry wrote: post #7

As a german i am quite sure they will ratify software patents. The very sad part is the people deciding this have absolutely no understanding what they are doing and that they open the box of pandora. There is currently almost no invest money in european startups, and if everyone of these startups is liable for bogus software patents they will have absolutely no chance on getting big.

I don't like software patents but I have a hard time buying that it will limit investment further. It hasn't significantly done so in the US where software patents have long existed. I imagine it may spur investment because investors see software patents as protecting their investments in startups from both other startups and established companies. Edited to correct a typo kindly pointed out by a comment below.

I think patents (and especially software patents) cause more problems than they are worth. The most valuable asset in an economy is entrepreneurship and creativity, which often comes in the form of an individual making something amazing in his 'garage'. Patents do not help the lone genious in any shape or form, in fact it is already a very bad idea to worry about patenting your idea early on, because the effort and money it will take to do so will detract from the invention itself. For the lone inventor, this means he essentially just has to take a gamble and hope no one has patented his idea. And if someone sues him, he is done, his invention gone with him (which was valuable even if it already existed).

Patents do somewhat work in the 'corporate' world, where potential inventions require a quantifiable capital investment that would obviously not be worth it in the absence of patent law (like antibiotics). But even then, companies often choose to keep the invention a secret if possible.

Software, generally is not like that, capital investment required is only quantifiable for 'big' applications, that do not require much creativity but simply a lot of work to create. And these applications are actually not the sort of thing that is patentable.

I think the reason patents are generally accepted is the 'righteus' notion that if someone invents something, he owns it and it cannot be stolen from him. But this notion is achterhaald, what if two people invent something at the same time? What someone invented the same thing a few years later, but actually succeeds in bringing it to market, unlike the first inventor?

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#99

Post by PaulHoule » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

tpetry wrote: post #7

As a german i am quite sure they will ratify software patents. The very sad part is the people deciding this have absolutely no understanding what they are doing and that they open the box of pandora. There is currently almost no invest money in european startups, and if everyone of these startups is liable for bogus software patents they will have absolutely no chance on getting big.

Does the government think that if they had software patents they could get a Facebook too?

Re: Germany will violate international agreements with Unitary Patent, says FFII

#100

Post by joes_hk » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

_Microft wrote: post #77

ctas wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider her being in the conservative party the actual problem. In Germany she's well known for nepotism and corruptness, even if until this day she successfully evaded the punishment. Not long ago there's been a claim that her phone contains important evidence in support of the accusation, but it turned out that data on the phone had been "accidentally" wiped.

I'm german and it's the first time I hear someone calling her corrupt or nepotistic.

Maybe you have heard of the "Berateraffären". It's almost funny how they pulled it off without getting into legal trouble.