Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine • Hacker News Board

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#11

Post by sk5t » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 3:51 AM UTC

blkhp19 wrote: post #9

FlyingSideKick wrote: post #7

I’ve studied Afro-Cuban percussion for 28 years now and I can tell you from experience there are some bata rhythms that definitely make the listener enter into a heavy trance state. Haitian vodun drumming is especially designed for generating trance and out of body experiences in its entirety. If you can find an old recording of Haitian voodoo drums give it a listen using good headphones with your eyes closed, and af…

It would be great if you could link to a recording that you think could induce this state, given that you’re an expert in this field! If I’m left to search on my own I’m not sure I’ll find the correct recording.

+1 and why must it be an "old recording" - have modern Haitian voodoo drummers lost the way? Seems a bit set-up for shifting goalposts...

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#12

Post by playingchanges » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 3:58 AM UTC

FlyingSideKick wrote: post #7

I’ve studied Afro-Cuban percussion for 28 years now and I can tell you from experience there are some bata rhythms that definitely make the listener enter into a heavy trance state. Haitian vodun drumming is especially designed for generating trance and out of body experiences in its entirety. If you can find an old recording of Haitian voodoo drums give it a listen using good headphones with your eyes closed, and af…

Awesome. There are plenty of modern forms of music / rhythms indented to induce trance as well. Disco four on the floor and Techno come to mind.

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#13

Post by tgflynn » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:01 AM UTC

This reminds me of the binaural beat technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi-Sync) that the Monroe Institute has been claiming for decades is a way to induce out of body like experiences.

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#14

Post by pmoriarty » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:09 AM UTC

bialpio wrote: post #6

Immediately made me think of: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/bring... Too long; didn't listen: same thing but related to Alzheimer's disease research where scientists would induce some frequency in the brain of mice and humans to help clean up some "gunk" in the brain that's associated with the disease.

I got interested in this and related research back in 2016 when I heard that Radiolab episode, and then went on to seek out 40 Hz tones on youtube, of which there are a great variety (other useful search terms are "Gamma", "Rife" and "Delta" tones), some "pure" and others with music underlying them or mixed with some other tones. I just sought out the "pure" ones, and sampled them for a while...

None of them seemed to do anything perceptable to me, except one...[1] (ignore the cheesy visuals and just listen to the sound). It made me feel indescribably weird, and I couldn't stand listening to it for long out of concern about what it might be doing to me.

This kind of experimentation has a lot of potential, but kind of like experimenting with newly designed drugs with which humans have had virtually no experience, it might be dangerous as the effects on the human brain are unknown.

Caveat emptor.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-eTVW8VMRQ

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#15

Post by aaron695 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics - "Biological technique that involves the use of light to control neurons that have been genetically modified to express light-sensitive ion channels. "

Pic - https://www2.technologyreview.com/player/07/03/Mice/images/1...

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#16

Post by dchasson » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:34 AM UTC

Could this be explained by the photo electric effect? I mean beaming energy through brain cells until the mouse has brain damage might be a better explanation for sudden loss of mental function.

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#17

Post by op03 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:34 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #8

This would be a workable explanation for being able to "soul travel" while meditating. When I did the whole Trancendental Meditation thing back in the late 70's it was all about clearing your mind of everything except a repeating mantra. EEG's of people meditating show rhythmic brain activity typical of sleeping. If that is the case (and I'm not saying it is, just noting the potential path here) then it would suggest…

Music is probably another route.

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#18

Post by treez00 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:42 AM UTC

Here's a thread with more detail about the data in the study: https://twitter.com/ikauvar/status/1306266124313653249

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#19

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

From an old documentary I watched early '00s (no idea what it was called), there was a musician that claimed music with a BPM between 135-140BPM and a 16th note bass line was in a frequency range that made it very easy for the human brain to sync up to it. Something about being very close to the Theta wave (or which ever brain wave, it's been a long time since I've seen it). This would result in a dance floor full of people who were all on the same wavelength. I'm sure it didn't hurt if they were all on some form of psychedelic as well. If the BPM was too high or too low, then it was harder for the brain to latch on. This was an old Goa/Psytrance artist, so that trance state was kind of the point of the music.

Re: Scientists say a mind-bending rhythm in the brain can act like ketamine

#20

Post by seph-reed » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #19

From an old documentary I watched early '00s (no idea what it was called), there was a musician that claimed music with a BPM between 135-140BPM and a 16th note bass line was in a frequency range that made it very easy for the human brain to sync up to it. Something about being very close to the Theta wave (or which ever brain wave, it's been a long time since I've seen it). This would result in a dance floor full of…

Reminds me of "Human Time" 94-96BPM

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/26978...

> JAD: Because if we're unconsciously speeding up slow beats and slowing down fast beats, well, there's got to be ...

MATTHEW GUERRIERI: Some particular point ...

JAD: ... right in the middle ...

MATTHEW GUERRIERI: ... where our judgment of time actually syncs up with actual time.

JAD: Where in other words, we guess the tempo correctly.

MATTHEW GUERRIERI: Yeah, and it's called the indifference point.

JAD: I don't know why it's called that, but according to most research that point falls somewhere around this tempo.

MATTHEW GUERRIERI: 94, 96 beats per minute.

JAD: If you give people four beats of this tempo and then ask them to guess the fifth, they usually get it right.

MATTHEW GUERRIERI: Yep.

JAD: That's human time.