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This electrical transmission tower has a problem

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Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#31

Post by beachy »

There should be more use of body cameras in these inspection situations where it's hard to get at the inspected item, and it's all too easy to say "she'll be right" (a colloquial expression in my country that roughly translates to "it will be OK").

A decent regime would involve spot checks, pick a tower at random, then review the footage and make sure we have a clear image of the C hook and the bracket it hangs from, AND they are both in good condition.

A similar situation is rebar in concrete pours. Who's to know if the inspection actually took place once it's buried beneath concrete? Again, a good regime would allow going back and looking at the footage.

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#33

Post by nooyurrsdey »

isclever wrote: post #32
umvi wrote: post #9

Excellent Twitter thread, I'm glad I went down that rabbit hole. I wish it was in blog format though, it's kind of jarring working through little blurbs.

Try this: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1306359385656946688.html

This is so useful, thanks

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#34

Post by robterrell »

umvi wrote: post #9

Excellent Twitter thread, I'm glad I went down that rabbit hole. I wish it was in blog format though, it's kind of jarring working through little blurbs.

I know it's ancillary to the excellent twitter thread, but I was surprised to learn 1970's computing pioneer Bill Godbout was killed in the Camp fire.

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#35

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway189262 wrote: post #28

Interesting. I'm kinda sympathetic to PG&E on this though. These big lines don't have much under them, inspection is by helicopter, and the lines cannot be shut down. I would not be surprised if "fix it when it breaks" is a nationwide phenomenon for high tension lines. What makes it bad is how fire-prone California is. I'm of the opinion that humans should not be living in areas that burn regularly. And in PG&E's def…

[deleted]

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#36

Post by tfigment »

Agustus wrote: post #4

This is a good use of twitter to apply engineering and figure out issues. The problem is that PG&E’s incentives are significantly misaligned to not be successful: 1. Crazy renewable edicts that do not have base power assumptions (see blackouts over summer). 2. Maintenance programs that are not overseen by a third part. This story. Please read just to see the sheering off of the c hook and the fact it might have been…

Even more so that they did something to fix the hole but apparently not the hook.

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#37

Post by Dylan16807 »

umvi wrote: post #16
ctdonath wrote: post #6

Case study in importance of maintenance. 1 broken century-old hook => $16,650,000,000 damages.

Like the thread points out though, maintenance is just one piece of the puzzle. There were multiple points of failure here, not just the hook. That's like blaming the welders for the Lebanon explosion when in reality it was a combination of like 4 different fails over the course of many years.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you count "power lines active during dry conditions" which is unavoidable, the only meaningful failure here is repeated lack of maintenance. The design was fine, and it was installed fine; it lasted a hundred years! Lack of maintenance will kill anything eventually, all by itself.

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#39

Post by akira2501 »

throwaway189262 wrote: post #28

Interesting. I'm kinda sympathetic to PG&E on this though. These big lines don't have much under them, inspection is by helicopter, and the lines cannot be shut down. I would not be surprised if "fix it when it breaks" is a nationwide phenomenon for high tension lines. What makes it bad is how fire-prone California is. I'm of the opinion that humans should not be living in areas that burn regularly. And in PG&E's def…

> and the lines cannot be shut down.

Of course they can. A failure is an unplanned shutdown, and I doubt that leads to better outcomes than a planned shutdown. Also this thread demonstrates that PG&E replaced _other_ parts of the same tower.

> I'm of the opinion that humans should not be living in areas that burn regularly.

I'm of the opinion that climate change makes this a moving target, and this is simply one of the obvious repercussions.

> is it PG&E's fault that tons of people moved into this fire prone area?

No, it's their fault that even though they made $550 million in profits in 2018, and made other improvements to these towers, they still failed to keep them in proper repair. Also, it's not always "fire-prone." California experienced a bit of drought in 2018.

> and cities should have paid to make them safer

Shouldn't the company making $550 million in profits pay to make them safer?

Re: This electrical transmission tower has a problem

#40

Post by floatingatoll »

throwaway189262 wrote: post #28

Interesting. I'm kinda sympathetic to PG&E on this though. These big lines don't have much under them, inspection is by helicopter, and the lines cannot be shut down. I would not be surprised if "fix it when it breaks" is a nationwide phenomenon for high tension lines. What makes it bad is how fire-prone California is. I'm of the opinion that humans should not be living in areas that burn regularly. And in PG&E's def…

PG&E pled guilty to the charges brought against them, in part because there was clear evidence of their leadership intentionally neglecting their infrastructure for decades until it fell into such disrepair as to start a forest fire. They chose to remain quiet about their neglect until it became impossible to do so, sealing their fate. If they had demonstrated a history of decades of campaigning to get the problem solved, rather than silently neglecting it, they might not have been found guilty at all.

(This is from memory, so if I got any specifics wrong, see replies for corrections.)

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