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Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

theguardian.com

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Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#191

Post by [deleted] »

EarthIsHome wrote: post #160
jfengel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The single most effective thing you can do for climate change, by far, is vote. The climate is one of those tragedy-of-the-commons problems that can only be solved when everybody consents to work on it together. It takes only a relatively small proportion to prevent any progress from being made. We certainly to have enough resources to intervene, but doing "something -- no matter how trivial" fails to minimize the de…

I don't know where you live, but on my ballot, "the environment" isn't listed. Instead of goals or policies, what's listed are politicians. An honest question: The west coast is represented by Democrats. Who am I supposed to vote for? We've known about climate change, and we've voted. We've had both Republican and Democratic regimes over the past half century, but what has changed for the better? Just recently, House…

[deleted]

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#192

Post by jlengrand »

paulmd wrote: post #152
jlengrand wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entirely correct. And that's infuriating Though it does not stop us from acting at local level. Let us all stop replacing our phones every year, and there will be a shift in consumption models. We collectively, as a sum of locals, have the power to make things change.

Not saying don't do those things, but we need society-level action to really make an impact. To plagiarize the saying about the internet and censorship, capitalism is a self-correcting system designed to route around any "errors" like individual ethics/behavior that produce non-optimal profits according to "the rules" of the system. If you reduce the demand for coal because everyone chooses to pay the extra for solar…

That's an interesting point you're making (though scary). Didn't think about it that way. Thanks.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#193

Post by TomSwirly »

aaron695 wrote: post #190

I feel like this story gets repeated every few years on HN. Checking one was 10 year ago. I think it's funny people think you can have a collective oral history that's factual. Yet even with computers and internet we get the apocalyptical death cult going on and on about the end of the world and the mysticism. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2079371 "Dead Bird Panic", I like that comment.

"Everything is fine. This is all normal."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/science/bird-populations-...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#194

Post by TomSwirly »

just_fred wrote: post #70
ohyes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But frankly, it doesn't matter if we're the cause or not, we're the only thing around that could potentially do anything to save ourselves. So ya know, we kinda should regardless of whose fault it is.

We would have to shut down 90% of the pollutants world wide to do anything. Will make the Covid shutdowns look like a long weekend. And even then it might not make a difference if climate change is out of our control. You willing to do that?

"Not killing the planet would be too expensive."

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#195

Post by TomSwirly »

pjkundert wrote: post #187
hinkley wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-mask folks have chosen self-actualization over survival. Like the stages of grief, the hierarchy is not necessarily chronological.

I'm really not sure if this is meant as an insult or not, but I'll take it as respectful. Wearing my high-bypass N95 mask, or a sloppy ill-fitting "surgical" mask or an un-rated cloth mask around a vulnerable person with multiple comorbidities is a dangerous show of virtue-signalling: it does essentially nothing to protect that individual. Encouraging vulnerable people to wear a powered HEPA ventilator on their hip,…

[flagged]

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#196

Post by TomSwirly »

mhb wrote: post #98
xoa wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does it matter what the cause is? Are you being serious? The cause is a key part of choosing the most efficient response. Responses can potentially involve both reactionary measures to climate forcing and reductionary measures trying to reduce forcing. If the cause was, say, the sun getting brighter by 15% for some reason, well we can't just turn down the sun, so while yes we'd having just a much motivation to…

We have a problem and need to find the best way to fix it. Understanding the cause in order to find one possible fix is an obvious thing to do. So is looking for any other possible solutions. It is an unnecessary constraint that we need to solve the problem only by reversing its cause. If the cause of the problem was a brighter sun but we could save the planet by internalizing the cost of our emissions, it seems like…

I can just imagine you as a doctor. "We don't need to know what's causing the disease - we'll just give you medicine, that has to work!"

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#197

Post by _yid9 »

TomSwirly wrote: post #195
pjkundert wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure if this is meant as an insult or not, but I'll take it as respectful. Wearing my high-bypass N95 mask, or a sloppy ill-fitting "surgical" mask or an un-rated cloth mask around a vulnerable person with multiple comorbidities is a dangerous show of virtue-signalling: it does essentially nothing to protect that individual. Encouraging vulnerable people to wear a powered HEPA ventilator on their hip,…

[flagged]

No comment on the HEPA ventilator, then? :)

My father is significantly at risk; I'd much rather he wear an inexpensive HEPA ventilator (99.97%+ vs. 95% suppression, fresh air, ...), than even an N95. Wouldn't you?

And what exactly to "people like me" deserve? I'm used to being hated by both right- and left-wing people, so I'm OK -- but who's going to give "it" to me?

Edit:

FYI: https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Educat...

Note especially the effectiveness of HEPA vs. particulates in the size range of SARS-CoV-2...

If this is rated HEPA in the US, this must provide 99.97%+ filtration in the "worst" particulate size, 0.3micron, and apparently even better in the .06 to .2 micron SARS virus size: https://www.amazon.ca/AirPro-Rechargeable-Electrical-Purifyi...

Its a hundred bucks... Why not opt for this option for people at high risk from viral respiratory illnesses? Why the push-back, here?

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#198

Post by aurizon »

just_fred wrote: post #70
ohyes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But frankly, it doesn't matter if we're the cause or not, we're the only thing around that could potentially do anything to save ourselves. So ya know, we kinda should regardless of whose fault it is.

We would have to shut down 90% of the pollutants world wide to do anything. Will make the Covid shutdowns look like a long weekend. And even then it might not make a difference if climate change is out of our control. You willing to do that?

Fred, Sooner or later the warming will force us to implement these extreme measures, even thiugh they need to be implemented ASAP.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#199

Post by oarsinsync »

HenryBemis wrote: post #185
bdamm wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but our definition of toxic has changed. Humans have been living with wood smoke for millennia, it may not be great for you but it isn't very new in terms of evolutionary presence. Smoke from burning industrial chemicals is a newer thing, and certainly some of these industrial toxins can kill or injure you far more quickly than wood smoke. So a warehouse full of laptops burning (and probably painted with lead)…

Thank you for that comment. My post above got downvoted (and I don't care) but it's all about the point I was trying to make and it was clearly misunderstood. Btw my father is a retired fireman and the nomenclature ("chemical", "toxic") is his. Every time there is a fire in the news we talk about it and he gives me his input on the impact. And he has dealt with many types of fires (forests, offices, chemical factorie…

> Wood - you cough

> Emissions from wood smoke, discussed below, can cause coughing, wheezing, asthma attacks, heart attacks, lung cancer, and premature death, among other health effects.

https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#200

Post by jnurmine »

daveslash wrote: post #74
paulmd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the internal instability within western nations has reached the point that our national psyche has regressed to the lower levels of maslow's hierarchy we've regressed from self-actualization and are now focused on issues of survival

If our ecology really is collapsing, this is going to get worse. As resources become more and more scarce, powerful first-world countries are not going to want to regress in their standards of living, which I speculate is going to lead to increased global conflict.

Are you familiar with Jem Bendell's "Deep Adaptation"? Its premise is that near-term (climate-induced) ecological-societal collapse is inevitable and unavoidable, and the way forward is to adapt to this, as there is no longer a way to mitigate it.
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