Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke • Hacker News Board

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#791

Post by me_me_me » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 12:44 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #786

7402 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maimonides defines eight levels in giving charity (tzedakah), each one higher than the preceding one. On an ascending level, they are as follows: 8. When donations are given grudgingly. 7. When one gives less than he should, but does so cheerfully. 6. When one gives directly to the poor upon being asked. 5. When one gives directly to the poor without being asked. 4. Donations when the recipient is aware of the donor'…

Level one sounds suspiciously close to actually paying taxes and let the social net built on it work its magic. Now come on, downvote me to hell.

No that's exactly it.

Don't give fish. Give fishing rod, fishing right and fishing classes to people who need it.

Only morons think they are better off in society full of poor oppressed people. In a was a social net system is ultimate selfish move as it lowers crime increases productivity and so on. Instead of living in permanent danger akin to current Rep of South Africa.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#792

Post by names_are_hard » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 12:52 PM UTC

fctorial wrote: post #771

7402 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maimonides defines eight levels in giving charity (tzedakah), each one higher than the preceding one. On an ascending level, they are as follows: 8. When donations are given grudgingly. 7. When one gives less than he should, but does so cheerfully. 6. When one gives directly to the poor upon being asked. 5. When one gives directly to the poor without being asked. 4. Donations when the recipient is aware of the donor'…

How did he rank these? Some are obvious (1, 8). Can't really differentiate the rest. Any good articles about it?

I mentioned this in another comment, but I believe (no source, just speculation) that each progressive level does a better job helping the recipient maintain their dignity. Charity is not only about helping someone financially but also helping them feel good, too.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#793

Post by blaser-waffle » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

simula67 wrote: post #696

SeanLuke wrote: post #284

I vaguely recall that there are classic levels in Jewish philosophy regarding philanthropy, and among the highest is to give with no expectation of any return whatsoever: that means not only giving where it matters, but to do so anonymously, to organizations that don't benefit you (no opera companies), and to people with no ties to you. In this respect Chuck Feeney has been incredible. This is not to dismiss the like…

Is Chuck Feeney Jewish?

Feeney is a pretty dang irish surname

"This is an anglicized form of an Olde Gaelic name O Fiannaidh - composed of the elements 'O' meaning a 'grandson (of)' or 'male descendant' and 'Fianna' - a 'soldier'. The main O Fiannaidh clan was located in the parish of Easkey, Co. Sligo."

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#794

Post by austincheney » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

bxparks wrote: post #334

bedhead wrote: post #240

I’ve long argued for massive estate tax rates on large estates in order to incentivize behavior like this. I have no problem at all with Bezos being worth $200 billion (or whatever it is now), but it’s this dynastic wealth that I find borderline sickening. Why in the hell should the Rockefeller’s of today be billionaires??? Also, these giant charitable foundations/family offices are similarly off-putting, as they are…

I understand your sentiment. But the highest marginal estate tax rate is currently 40%, for amounts above $1M (after deducting applicable exemptions). That seems high enough. The problem is that the estate tax system is so complex, so full of loopholes and tricks, that no truly rich person with 2 brain cells and a competent estate lawyer will pay a fraction of that 40% tax. I don't know what the solution is, but it s…

An estate tax should be simple and Draconian to be effective. Simple is you have $10 million to distribute to anybody you so decide in your will. Only one blanket exception without restrictions or definitions attached. Everything else goes to the government. Any assets transfered out of country, as well as those derived thereof, are forfeit to the government, and any internally claimed jurisdictions, upon reentry.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#795

Post by Robotbeat » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

7402 wrote: post #525

SeanLuke wrote: post #284

I vaguely recall that there are classic levels in Jewish philosophy regarding philanthropy, and among the highest is to give with no expectation of any return whatsoever: that means not only giving where it matters, but to do so anonymously, to organizations that don't benefit you (no opera companies), and to people with no ties to you. In this respect Chuck Feeney has been incredible. This is not to dismiss the like…

Maimonides defines eight levels in giving charity (tzedakah), each one higher than the preceding one. On an ascending level, they are as follows: 8. When donations are given grudgingly. 7. When one gives less than he should, but does so cheerfully. 6. When one gives directly to the poor upon being asked. 5. When one gives directly to the poor without being asked. 4. Donations when the recipient is aware of the donor'…

I appreciate this kind of discussion. It's interesting to understand the moral philosophy of different cultures (and hopefully getting at some fundamental universal understanding, or at least a consensus), and it's important to talk explicitly about it. Informative and useful.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#796

Post by audiometry » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

names_are_hard wrote: post #790

audiometry wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of a weird escalation -- steps 8->2 incrementally make sense (the more anonymized you are, the 'better'). But then the difference between step 2 and step 1 is totally different, the distinction is no longer anonymity, but some measure of efficacy of the support.

Maybe the axis is not anonymity per se but the dignity preserved by the recipient. Anonymity is not the goal, it's a means to an end. And providing employment achieves that end even better than anonymity does. In this light the lower levels also make sense, each progressive level allows the recipient to feel less guilty (the donor is not annoyed that they have to help, or doesn't even need to be asked, etc). The real…

Excellent idea! I think you explained it.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#797

Post by Robotbeat » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

gringoDan wrote: post #370

SeanLuke wrote: post #284

I vaguely recall that there are classic levels in Jewish philosophy regarding philanthropy, and among the highest is to give with no expectation of any return whatsoever: that means not only giving where it matters, but to do so anonymously, to organizations that don't benefit you (no opera companies), and to people with no ties to you. In this respect Chuck Feeney has been incredible. This is not to dismiss the like…

> we must remind ourselves that this is unimpressive compared to the poor person who donates $25 to others while starving herself Is it? This is a very Christian way of looking at donations: personal sacrifice / self-deprivation is what matters. [1] However, utilitarians – notably Effective Altruists [2] – would make the opposite argument: what matters is the impact that you make with the dollars you donate (both in…

Not just Christian, but other religions and philosophy as well. Utilitarianism isn't necessarily the default and is easy to subvert for selfishness. "See, really, me getting as rich as possible is justified because someday I'll be able to use this to solve some abstract problem I've decided is the REAL issue that needs to be solved..."

As long as you convince yourself that the returns to compound interest are higher than the returns to charity at any one point, it's easy to justify just pushing off your donation time to sometime arbitrarily far in the future, and high luxuries can be justified as "self-care" that enhance your own productivity or whatever. Utilitarianism can too easily become perverted to just being self-serving.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#798

Post by ignoramous » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

7402 wrote: post #525

SeanLuke wrote: post #284

I vaguely recall that there are classic levels in Jewish philosophy regarding philanthropy, and among the highest is to give with no expectation of any return whatsoever: that means not only giving where it matters, but to do so anonymously, to organizations that don't benefit you (no opera companies), and to people with no ties to you. In this respect Chuck Feeney has been incredible. This is not to dismiss the like…

Maimonides defines eight levels in giving charity (tzedakah), each one higher than the preceding one. On an ascending level, they are as follows: 8. When donations are given grudgingly. 7. When one gives less than he should, but does so cheerfully. 6. When one gives directly to the poor upon being asked. 5. When one gives directly to the poor without being asked. 4. Donations when the recipient is aware of the donor'…

> The highest form of charity is to help sustain a person before they become impoverished by offering a substantial gift in a dignified manner, or by extending a suitable loan, or by helping them find employment or establish themselves in business so as to make it unnecessary for them to become dependent on others.

This is also pretty much one of the ways a certain Shi'a Islam community, Dawoodi Bohra, administers loans which they call Qardan Hasana (the diginifed loan).

[0] https://www.thedawoodibohras.com/2020/07/16/qardan-hasana-th...

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#799

Post by MisterBastahrd » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

wang_li wrote: post #418

One could argue that everyone has the same responsibilities to society at large. Thus for every Chuck Feeny and Bill Gates, you, personally you, have an obligation to create many billion dollars of value and give it away. If you don't do that, you're worse than any evil billionaire you care to name. They at least are paying millions of dollars in taxes for any money they pull out of investments. How many millions in…

When I utilize the interstate highways, I am doing so for my benefit with my personal vehicle. The wear and tear on the roads is negligible.

When the Waltons utilize the interstate highways, they do so using giant tractor trailers which chew up blacktop with heavy loads.

They deserve to have a higher tax burden because they use more resources.

Re: Chuck Feeney Is Now Officially Broke

#800

Post by blueyes » Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

Chuck's actual works get just a little mention in this piece.

He is known for helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. That is, to end the Troubles, a conflict that lasted about 30 years, from the late 60s to the late 90s. People who were not yet adults in that time may have difficult imagining the violence of the Troubles. The terrorism, riots, violence and armed actions that characterized a guerrilla war and its suppression, all on the edge of Western Europe. The southern counties that now make up the Republic of Ireland had only achieved independence a few decades before that (the dates are complicated, but let's say it was in 1921) after 800 years of British occupation, and a recent war of independence.

That was the backdrop against which Chuck Feeney tried to bring peace. He did so by working with both sides of the conflict, the Catholics and the Protestants, with diplomacy and massive investments, to make sure that they could see a path to peace despite all the anger, animosity and desire for vengeance that decades of violence and killing can instill. He helped resolve that. Not alone, but he was crucial. And we don't even think about it any more because it's all been relatively normal for a while. And that's amazing.