Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 253 posts

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#51

Post by snowbrook »

narwally wrote: post #14

This is for glass recycling not plastic, but I recently found out that my county ships all of their glass recyclables to be dumped in a landfill of a neighboring state. In my state, waste disposal companies are legally obligated to recycle everything they can that ends up in a recycling bin. But with glass it's actually vastly cheaper to produce new glass bottles than it is to make them out of recycled material. So t…

Possible new use for recycled glass: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/two-startups-se...

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#52

Post by RankingMember »

chubot wrote: post #42

I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot. Insane. The least you can do is use a refillable container. 10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, a…

It's literally convenience trumping everything. For example, for gatherings (back when we were able to have those), you could either bring a big jug of water and a bunch of solo cups, a case of bottled water, or, the eco-friendly option, a jug of water and just assume everyone else will have a reusable water bottle (e.g. Nalgene). The easiest option there is the bottled water option.

This can only be solved by shifting from the "wish upon a star that all consumers will somehow solve the problem themselves" strategy to putting the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the people profiting from putting municipal water in single-use plastic bottles.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#53

Post by SQueeeeeL »

chubot wrote: post #42

I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot. Insane. The least you can do is use a refillable container. 10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, a…

People are bad decision agents. Selling bottled water to Americans is like selling snow to eskimos, but we buy it in droves because advertising fuckin works and works well. They make a few dollars off of every person in the country to contribute nothing, but that's just how capitalism works. The only way to win is to start making your own water bottles and market them harder!! (btw the planet is still screwed doing this, but you'll be rich!)

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#54

Post by hadlock »

chmod600 wrote: post #37
scottndecker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Most plastics can't be recycled; it was a PR play by the plastic industry decades ago. Using plastics for such things as medical devices and such makes complete sense to me. Using plastics for items which inherently are only used for a few minutes or an hour (see the F&B industry) makes no sense at all to me.

"Using plastics for items which inherently are only used for a few minutes or an hour" Of course it makes sense. Plastic is cheap, light, watertight, strong, and mallable. It's kind of a miracle material, except that it's too stable. If we had a version that decomposed in a year, it would be awesome.

Compostable "plastics", e.g. PLA, which sometimes is corn-based, exist; in California I've seen compostable disposable silverware, as well as compostable decorative planters (I own two, holding up good after three years, which makes me wonder how compostable they really are). But compostable "plastics" do exist, at least in some markets.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#55

Post by outworlder »

chubot wrote: post #42

I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot. Insane. The least you can do is use a refillable container. 10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, a…

> I still don't get how bottled water became a thing

Many reasons. Mostly distrust on how potable the water actually is (events like Flint didn't help). Some locations have water that tastes bad - even if it should be otherwise healthy.

What I don't understand is how small bottles became a thing. Sure, if you are out and about it might be convenient to carry some, as they are sealed containers. But some people buy them for normal consumption.

At least use the big bottles that are supposed to be used with watercoolers. Those are actually reused.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#56

Post by tuatoru »

TylerE wrote: post #45
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

You're just assuming that glass is better than plastic. I challenge that assumption. Glass is much heavier and bulkier (so a truck will carry less product, and burn more fuel and cause more road wear to do so), and more product will be lost to spoilage.

Glass also takes a lot of energy to produce. In many (most?) cases more fossil fuels will be consumed making a glass container than the plastic equivalent.

The same sorts of issues apply to coated paper or card containers.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#57

Post by AnotherGoodName »

chubot wrote: post #42

I still don't get how bottled water became a thing. It wasn't a thing when I was a kid, and somehow the industry convinced us to buy huge quantities of an inferior product for more money, and it pollutes the environment to boot. Insane. The least you can do is use a refillable container. 10+ years ago Google switched from bottle water to giving everyone a container. And that was a great move. Yet people complained, a…

A thought exercise: Sugary bottled drinks are even worse for the environment. They not only have the same bottles and water involved but they also have other ingredients that add even more environmental consequences. They have public health consequences too.

But of course to ban sugary drinks would cut into the realm of personal choice right? After all people may choose to want a sugary beverage. So no one argues that case.

Still it's weird to draw the line at bottled water and not further along. I used to live near a council area (Manly City Council) that banned bottled water. It meant you could only buy sugary drinks at the local corner store. Go to the beach and forget your water bottle? You better like Coca-Cola because that's all they'll sell you!

I'm not opposed to encouraging people to use a re-usable container. But i am opposed to a ban on something that's far better than the alternatives that remain unbanned.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#58

Post by f00zz »

mattbeckman wrote: post #43

If someone was to Elon Musk the shi* out of this problem, what would they build or do differently? My gut is that it would focus on plastic identification automation, but not positive.

Maybe not the most environment-friendly solution, but plastic waste can be depolymerized into crude oil. No idea about the economics though.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#59

Post by hinkley »

snowbrook wrote: post #51
narwally wrote: post #14

This is for glass recycling not plastic, but I recently found out that my county ships all of their glass recyclables to be dumped in a landfill of a neighboring state. In my state, waste disposal companies are legally obligated to recycle everything they can that ends up in a recycling bin. But with glass it's actually vastly cheaper to produce new glass bottles than it is to make them out of recycled material. So t…

Possible new use for recycled glass: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/two-startups-se...

I believe you can also use glass in concrete and asphalt (although we just talked about how nasty asphalt is). I think I heard brown glass can use mixed color feedstock, but other uses for commingled glass should also help with the logistics of recycling it. Especially since multiple consumers should decrease shipping distances.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#60

Post by gruez »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #19

The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries. Governments and consumers need to get serious with these lobbies: - Ban ALL single-use plastic (except for medical supplies). - Heavily tax plastic packaging - Tax breaks for glass and paper packaging - Force plastic return deposit schemes at supermarkets _payed for by manufacturer…

> The Plastic recycling process as a whole is an incredibly succesful cost externalization for the petro-chemical and packaging industries.

At the risk of sounding like an industry shill: why is it being characterized as an cost externalization by the petrochemical/packaging industries, rather than the consumers? I agree that any pollution generated during extraction and manufacture can be attributed as an externalize of the packaging/petrochemical industry, but why should they be on the hook after it leaves their hands? Consumers are using the said products, reaping the benefits (either in cheaper products or greater convenience), and pay for their disposal via tax dollars or fees. I guess you could argue that companies should be responsible for the entire lifecycle, but then it becomes a slippery slope. Is the automotive industry externalizing the cost of roads? Is the food industry externalizing the cost of sewer systems? Are electronics manufacturers externalizing the cost of electricity?

Post reply on HN