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91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

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Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#21

Post by lettergram »

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

In a large part it has to do with the logistics. For simplicity: Oil is used for plastic, the specific kind of oil is siphoned off and processed in bulk for plastic.

If you want to recapture plastic and recycle. You’d need to get plastic, separate it, reprocess (more expensive in most cases), then you could mold again (often at a slight loss of input, I.e. there will be waste).

This makes recycling plastic (today) multiple times more expensive to produce the same good. No one would want to spend double the current price on a soda.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#22

Post by jacobmischka »

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

The recently popular NPR article on the same subject[1] mentioned a few reasons why the economics doesn't work, at a high level of detail. Overall I believe it's because there are so many different kinds of plastic and they all need to be recycled differently, and mainly just that producing new plastic is just so cheap and easy by comparison.

Hopefully with better processes and technical innovations that will change soon.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-...

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#23

Post by dang »

Threads about recycling have started to pile up just like the recycling has. A list of the major ones is below (but only with "recycl" in the title—if you find more, let me know!)

Given the current picture, perhaps most interesting in retrospect is this 1996 article (which apparently set a record for hate mail) and its sequel from 2015:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853 Recycling is Garbage (1996) (55 comments) - https://archive.is/JKG7y

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585 The Reign of Recycling (34 comments) - https://archive.is/o8LBm

---

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24454067 Oil Companies Touted Recycling to Sell More Plastic (232 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24441979 How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled (310 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24440516 Pringles tube tries to wake from 'recycling nightmare' (394 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23040674 Plastics pile up as coronavirus hits Asia recyclers (19 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22927072 'Horrible hybrids': the plastic products that give recyclers nightmares (40 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22741635 Industry spent millions selling recycling, to sell more plastic (105 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22467015 Coke and Pepsi are getting sued for lying about recycling (170 comments)

2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22318165 Is Recycling a Waste of Time? (94 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21837414 Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It (152 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21742196 The Great Recycling Con [video] (77 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303618 How Coca-Cola Undermines Plastic Recycling Efforts (132 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297639 All plastic waste could be recycled into new plastic: researchers (150 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21102560 We asked three companies to recycle plastic and only one did (64 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21043986 Exposing the Myth of Plastic Recycling (17 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20762789 Plastics: What's Recyclable, What Becomes Trash and Why (215 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20728911 Smart plastic incineration posited as solution to global recycling crisis (84 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20726689 'Plastic recycling is a myth': what really happens to your rubbish (63 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20549804 Americans' plastic recycling is dumped in landfills (282 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20433851 Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated (336 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20134641 I work in the environmental movement. I don’t care if you recycle (15 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19889365 Why Recycling Doesn't Work (216 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19844551 Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out (46 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19799348 Bikes, bowling balls, and the balancing act that is modern recycling (2015) (35 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19728391 Just 10% of U.S. plastic gets recycled. A new kind of plastic could change that (116 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19483074 America Finally Admits Recycling Doesn’t Work (35 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19399543 The World's Recycling Is in Chaos. Here's What Has to Happen (25 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19346342 What Happens Now That China Won't Take U.S. Recycling (219 comments)

2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18893252 The Era of Easy Recycling May Be Coming to an End (84 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17841584 Recycling in the United States is in serious trouble. How does it work? (94 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17677698 Trash piles up in US as China closes door to recycling (272 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17495872 Californians love to recycle, but it's no longer doing any good (14 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17409152 Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve (441 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16856246 An enzyme that digests plastic could boost recycling (122 comments)

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16174719 Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling (71 comments)

2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15888827 Recycling Chaos in U.S. As China Bans 'Foreign Waste' (233 comments)

2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15528740 China Bans Foreign Waste – What Will Happen to the World's Recycling? (63 comments)

2016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11083898 Is it time to rethink recycling? (147 comments)

2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10327585 The Reign of Recycling (34 comments)

2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853 Recycling is Garbage (1996) (55 comments)

2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7778956 Is Recycling Worth It? (13 comments)

2010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1186666 Recycling is Bullshit; Make Nov. 15 Zero Waste Day, not America Recycles Day (18 comments)

2009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=937097 The Recycling Myth (36 comments)

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#24

Post by _Microft »

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

Recycling plastic is difficult because despite being labeled as PE, PET, PP, PS, ... most plastics [0] are customized by additives that change the material properties (in the simplest case the color)[1]. Recently I saw an imprint on the tub of a washing machine that read "PP-K40". Searching for it revealed that this is polypropylene (not surprising) but 40% of the mass of the material is added calcium carbonate filler (very unexpected)!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic#Common_plastics

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic#Fillers

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#25

Post by oblio »

vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

They've been trying and failing since the 1980's.

It's a lie from the plastics industry. If they increase their costs in order to cover recycling, plastic is no longer viable as a solution for many things it's used for. We're talking about a huge industry, one which is very closely connected to another one resisting change successfully for over half a century: fossil fuels.

As dang put it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24485399 :-))

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#26

Post by Mvhsz »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #7

People are so into recycling, but I fail to see how I can make a difference by recycling. It just seems like the problem is too massive at this point.

Don't let plastic recycling get you down, recycling aluminum is a great way to help the environment. Paper and cardboard are also good. Glass is just ok. Reduce your consumption where possible, and make sure that non-recycleable materials make it to a landfill where the environmental impacts are contained. Our individual efforts have a small impact, but it's a small effort and it does matter.

While there are some uses for recycled plastics, I fear that we'll likely continue to see a lot of single-use plastics until some economic force makes plastic unprofitable. Maybe public anger drives new regulation, maybe we use up all the oil, maybe we ween off of oil and it's too expensive to pump oil just to make plastics. In any case, I think we need to embrace some short and medium term solutions to mitigate environmental damage from single-use plastic.

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#27

Post by diggan »

marmshallow wrote: post #9
diggan wrote: post #6

Fitting, I just started looking into reusing plastic myself by collecting plastic from my own, family and friends trash and remoulding it into something useful. In my quest for this, I found Precious Plastic, an amazing community around recycling plastics yourself and for your community. https://preciousplastic.com/ While individuals plastic pollution is not the biggest emitter of plastic here in the world, we can al…

What kinds of things do you mold it into?

I've only run smaller experiments so far, mostly focusing around storage containers as I have a lot of electronic stuff that is currently just laying around. You can get some more inspiration here of what you could mould: https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/moulds/

But in general, anything you've seen in the real world would be possible to recreate with your own moulds, the limit is your imagination!

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#29

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #20
vinhboy wrote: post #12

I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. For example, I buy these "Green Toys" products that are supposedly made from recycled plastic and I love it. I have no idea why this recycled plastic is not used in other kid's toys, kitchenware, or random things like garden tools. This recycled plastic is tough, it doesn't decay in…

>I don't really understand why recycling plastic is not viable. I feel like this is more of a problem with ideology than actual process. [...] Anyways, if someone smarter than me tells me the economics doesn't work, I will believe them, but until then I am skeptical of the idea that we can't properly recycle plastic. This comment is baffling. In the beginning you think it's an ideological issue. Later on you acknowle…

[deleted]

Re: 91% of plastic isn't recycled (2018)

#30

Post by oblio »

dang wrote: post #23

Threads about recycling have started to pile up just like the recycling has. A list of the major ones is below (but only with "recycl" in the title—if you find more, let me know!) Given the current picture, perhaps most interesting in retrospect is this 1996 article (which apparently set a record for hate mail) and its sequel from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9757853 Recycling is Garbage (1996) (55 comm…

Very useful, I'm favoriting this to use for future discussions :-) Thanks!
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