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Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

robertnyman.com

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Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#11

Post by maxxxxx »

locopati wrote: post #6

That's a great idea in general. Not so much in a corporate environment where there may be a piece of older software that is still in use but that no longer requires active development. In that case, you want to lock the version - you don't want it to suddenly break because of a browser update and don't want to devote additional dev time to a finished product that was working just fine. It'd be nice if browsers automa…

I think the compatibility with older browsers has always been a cheap excuse. It shouldn't be too difficult to have a setting that forces certain URLs to run as a specific browser version as you mentioned.

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#12

Post by k7d »

protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

Having had worked on browser-based enterprise applications I can only say that there's deadlock situation.

As a vendor you need to provide compatibility with old outdated browsers because enteprise doesn't want to upgrade because that would break a number of other applications they use. The functional gap between something like IE6 (which is still an enteprise standard in a lot of places) and a modern browser is so wide that you almost end up creating two separate versions of the frontend. And eventually some vendors figure that it's not even worth supporting the modern browsers, so they don't. And so it goes...

I now honestly believe that web browser is a bad platform for entererise apps.

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#14

Post by tlrobinson »

protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

It might be a painful transition, but a critical mass of auto-updating web browsers will pressure vendors to build their web apps with forward compatibility in mind.

At this point that basically means they just need to test against multiple browsers and don't rely on bugs.

Browsers also need to be extra careful about maintaining backwards compatibility. The compatibility rule of thumb I've heard (I think the context was ES5) is that if more than two of the major browsers support a feature or bug then future versions must be backwards compatible.

In the end it should be better for everyone (well, except for browsers that try to lock-in users with non-standard features/bugs, but I think those days are mostly behind us)

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#15

Post by samfoo »

billswift wrote: post #10
nimrody wrote: post #7

What happens when the latest version is not the greatest? With automatic updates you don't get to decide when to upgrade and you usually have no way back. See the latest version of Skype. Google chrome also had a few less-than-perfect versions (for OS X, at least).

The user interface for FF4 sucks, I had to uninstall it and re-download FF3.6. Most of the differences were merely irritating - like the right click menu changing the places of Open in New Tab and Open in New Window, which was totally stupid, but I could have gotten used to that. The one change I could not do without and could find no way to restore was their eliminating the Recent Pages button - some sites take fore…

Click and hold on the back button brings up the list. This works in chrome too.

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#16

Post by kjksf »

protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

The problem, however, is not the browser but web service vendors.

If workarounds for buggy web services become more painful, there will be more pressure on those vendors to fix their software.

It's not that the pain isn't real, but the pain already exists and you can either choose a future where more browsers are better leading to more web services being less buggy or a future where browsers stagnate because web services are buggy and their vendors unwilling to fix them.

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#17

Post by aboodman »

nimrody wrote: post #7

What happens when the latest version is not the greatest? With automatic updates you don't get to decide when to upgrade and you usually have no way back. See the latest version of Skype. Google chrome also had a few less-than-perfect versions (for OS X, at least).

Autoupdate is a responsibility that application developers should take seriously. If the latest version is not better than the previous for users, they will leave. That is as it should be.

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#18

Post by protomyth »

k7d wrote: post #12
protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

Having had worked on browser-based enterprise applications I can only say that there's deadlock situation. As a vendor you need to provide compatibility with old outdated browsers because enteprise doesn't want to upgrade because that would break a number of other applications they use. The functional gap between something like IE6 (which is still an enteprise standard in a lot of places) and a modern browser is so w…

Yeah, its a deadlock, but it is a consequence of the economics of these things.

> I now honestly believe that web browser is a bad platform for entererise apps.

Yeah, I am starting to think the same thing. I expect that we might have to go to a traditional application with web services (ala iTunes or maybe TurboTax-like).

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#19

Post by protomyth »

tlrobinson wrote: post #14
protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

It might be a painful transition, but a critical mass of auto-updating web browsers will pressure vendors to build their web apps with forward compatibility in mind. At this point that basically means they just need to test against multiple browsers and don't rely on bugs. Browsers also need to be extra careful about maintaining backwards compatibility. The compatibility rule of thumb I've heard (I think the context…

What is the solution when a version of the browser gets updated that doesn't work with the web service? Do you expect no bugs in the actual browser to be introduced? Will Google rollback a version if it only affects less than a % of users?

Re: Web browser versions are dead – automatic updates is the future

#20

Post by protomyth »

kjksf wrote: post #16
protomyth wrote: post #4

My big problem with this is that many web service vendors (particularly in education) do not play well with the latest version of any browser. I currently need to keep IE8 on the lab machines for all the student online class software. We actually delayed our WinXP to W7 jump because it took so long to clear anything over IE6. For consumers, this is fine, but for IT this is a nightmare. I really don't want to come int…

The problem, however, is not the browser but web service vendors. If workarounds for buggy web services become more painful, there will be more pressure on those vendors to fix their software. It's not that the pain isn't real, but the pain already exists and you can either choose a future where more browsers are better leading to more web services being less buggy or a future where browsers stagnate because web serv…

I think I want a future where we get to choose when to upgrade so as not to disrupt the lives and education of people. I don't want to tell a classroom of people (who pay for our service) that they cannot have class today because of an upgrade.
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