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A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

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Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#151

Post by amadeuspagel »

pjc50 wrote: post #150
082349872349872 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yugoslavia was well before the Arab Spring. Of course, that was broadcast, not clicks, but outrage was stoked. (In Lonnie Athens' theory of violentisation, there's a step where the to-become-radically-violent says to themselves, "I'll become the biggest badass and this will never happen to me again." Milošević has a famous TV speech where, after a spot of "spontaneous violence", he tells ethnic serbs he isn't going t…

Yup. The Rwanda genocide was incited by radio. You could also argue that the original rise of Fascism was enabled by mass propaganda becoming possible where it wasn't really previously, but that's so overdetermined it's hard to attribute to particular causes. Then there's the original SARS of bad memetic propaganda, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Piece of leafleting from the early 1900s that's contributed to th…

And social media is actually less dangerous in this regard then past media like radio and books, because it makes it easy to comment in a way that reaches the consumers of the original media. You can run a radio channel where you rail against ethnic prejudice, but the listeners of radio rwanda are unlikely to listen to your channel. You can write a book refuting the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" but the readers of the original are unlikely to read your book. Social media is different. If someone incites hatred against ethnic groups on facebook you can respond and reach the readers of the original post.

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#152

Post by etripe »

carriganisms wrote: post #8

Do any of the major platforms really have a handle on how to deal with these challenges? I'm not excusing the lack of oversight. But most companies that grow this quickly are a complete cluster inside. Imagine having to battle well funded state actors on top of trying to build a business. Again, not saying Facebook shouldn't be held accountable. But it's always easy from the outside looking in.

Is Facebook really still trying to build a business? I'd say they're well beyond the startup phase.

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#153

Post by totetsu »

catsarebetter wrote: post #120
bostik wrote: post #118

I am surprised this segment (admittedly picked from Ars's secondary writeup) hasn't made a splash: "It's why I've seen priorities of escalations shoot up when others start threatening to go to the press, and why I was informed by a leader in my organization that my civic work was not impactful under the rationale that if the problems were meaningful they would have attracted attention, became a press fire, and convin…

I do think that's a poor way to handle the situation. Playing Devil's Advocate here, but is there a better way for that organization, in their fragile political position and immense power in the world, to handle situations like that? The sheer amount of bandwidth to moderate and manage every piece of data responsibly is so vast, there has to be a way of ranking content and trends and to allocate resources to them. It…

well if you want vast profits that come from taking on that role.. why not be expected to do it responsibly.. it's not like we couldn't and didn't get along just fine without facebook...

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#154

Post by ChrisLomont »

cabaalis wrote: post #37

None of this would be important if social media gave us what they originally sold us: See updates from your friends, family, and people you want to see updates from, in chronological order, rather than based upon weird engagement algorithms and privacy-destroying ad networks.

>See updates from your friends, family, and people you want to see updates from

Those same people are often the ones sending misinformation and creating the problems. How do you allow people to post updates and not allow them to spread misinformation that damages society?

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#155

Post by LatteLazy »

Kbelicius wrote: post #142
LatteLazy wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say it was. I said they need to be made "harmless", that's the standard the comment I replied to says we require.

Apologies, seems I had a brain fart.

No worries, sorry if I was a bit blunt :)

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#156

Post by Thorrez »

bostik wrote: post #118

I am surprised this segment (admittedly picked from Ars's secondary writeup) hasn't made a splash: "It's why I've seen priorities of escalations shoot up when others start threatening to go to the press, and why I was informed by a leader in my organization that my civic work was not impactful under the rationale that if the problems were meaningful they would have attracted attention, became a press fire, and convin…

Wow, that creates a really weird incentive for him. He'll get paid more and promoted if he secretly becomes a whistleblower.

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#157

Post by high_5 »

clomond wrote: post #107

Is it just me, or does it seem like, with both social media and “tech” in general, that the ‘regulation axe’ is grinding - and that it is only a matter of time that these algorithms core to these companies’ business models ‘suffer’ from likely blunt, harsh regulatory instruments that will broadly stop this kind of influence and manipulation. By doing so, it will also significantly harm these business models (and valu…

Indeed! Social media amplified vaxxers, climate change deniers and all the possible fringe lunatics you can find.

The social media should be much limited by the physical aspect, for example, if you never met the person in a real-life event, you can't connect with it via social media.

Throw out the news feeds. Throw out the ads alltogether (because political propagandists will always find a way if you want to make the distinction).

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#158

Post by david_draco »

catsarebetter wrote: post #120
bostik wrote: post #118

I am surprised this segment (admittedly picked from Ars's secondary writeup) hasn't made a splash: "It's why I've seen priorities of escalations shoot up when others start threatening to go to the press, and why I was informed by a leader in my organization that my civic work was not impactful under the rationale that if the problems were meaningful they would have attracted attention, became a press fire, and convin…

I do think that's a poor way to handle the situation. Playing Devil's Advocate here, but is there a better way for that organization, in their fragile political position and immense power in the world, to handle situations like that? The sheer amount of bandwidth to moderate and manage every piece of data responsibly is so vast, there has to be a way of ranking content and trends and to allocate resources to them. It…

They could allow a NGO/consortium in each country to do the moderation. No reason it has to be done centralized by Americans, based on American values.

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#159

Post by jacquesm »

bostik wrote: post #118

I am surprised this segment (admittedly picked from Ars's secondary writeup) hasn't made a splash: "It's why I've seen priorities of escalations shoot up when others start threatening to go to the press, and why I was informed by a leader in my organization that my civic work was not impactful under the rationale that if the problems were meaningful they would have attracted attention, became a press fire, and convin…

Facebook is rotten from the core because it is rotten at the head. It is a very sad state of affairs that the one company that would have been able to be a force for good in all this ended up being run by someone who is so morally disconnected.

At this point in time it will take an act of God to fix it, the lock-in is very strong and their ability to buy up anything that even begins to compete with them serves to cement that lock-in to the point where I don't see a way of ever dislodging it.

Re: A whistleblower says Facebook ignored global political manipulation

#160

Post by mschuster91 »

david_draco wrote: post #158
catsarebetter wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that's a poor way to handle the situation. Playing Devil's Advocate here, but is there a better way for that organization, in their fragile political position and immense power in the world, to handle situations like that? The sheer amount of bandwidth to moderate and manage every piece of data responsibly is so vast, there has to be a way of ranking content and trends and to allocate resources to them. It…

They could allow a NGO/consortium in each country to do the moderation. No reason it has to be done centralized by Americans, based on American values.

> No reason it has to be done centralized by Americans, based on American values.

So let's handle moderation in... let's say Saudi-Arabia, by having them silence LGBT and women's rights advocates?

And who is responsible for Saudi-Arabian citizens in exile? Saudi-Arabia? The country where they live in? The country where they are currently on vacation?

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