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At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

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Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#71
I'll venture a good chunk of that is due to an out-of-sync-with-reality issue.

I think we'd all feel more productive and motivated working from home if the world wasn't collapsing all around us. Working on some new feature shaving a few milliseconds off an API call for investment bankers seems a bit out of touch, whether at home or in the office.

Blaming loss of productivity solely on working from home may be the wrong conclusion.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#72
post #43

I’m inclined to believe he’s afraid of change and is abusing his power to push his feelings-based agenda. To me, this goes one of two ways. One, he loses a huge swath of young workers that apply to different companies instead and his company folds. Two, he still loses a huge swath of young workers who don’t apply but his feelings turn out to be true and the company comes out stronger. Either way, we won’t know until…

You seem to be operating under the assumption that all young employees want to work from home. I'm a young person who can't wait to go back to the office, and I know I'm not the only one. WFH is a much better setup for people who have two kids and a dog, not single people in small studio apartments.

What makes you think that WFH is better for people with kids and a dog?

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#73
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now. As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a…

Have you thought about relocating from SF? Most of my friends, including myself, have taken advantage of the current WFH situation to find much better accommodations for themselves outside of SF. Obviously not an option for everyone, but for those that have it I would definitely pursue it.

Oh yeah, definitely. I held on to my place in SF because it was a rent controlled spot that I clinged on to, but with rents crashing and the quality of life in SF worsening, I've considered terminating my lease and putting my stuff in storage.

Where did you move? A few months in a seaside town Airbnb would be nice. I could use the change of scenery.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#74
post #71

I'll venture a good chunk of that is due to an out-of-sync-with-reality issue. I think we'd all feel more productive and motivated working from home if the world wasn't collapsing all around us. Working on some new feature shaving a few milliseconds off an API call for investment bankers seems a bit out of touch, whether at home or in the office. Blaming loss of productivity solely on working from home may be the wro…

This has been a massive issue for me. I've had the same problem off-and-on over the past few years, whether in offices or at home. The work I do feels rather pointless in a world collapsing around me with no short or long term future. I at least sometimes get pulled back into feeling good about what I work on because it's a consumer app that does have a large userbase that depends on it for their happiness, and I do feel good about contributing to that, but if I was working in finance? No way.

Anyone who has been able to stay productive, let alone get more productive, in this reality is either in denial or far more optimistic than I'll ever be.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#75
post #56
post #15

Younger employees probably have less space. Apartment/house shares, etc. I've known some who are working on their bed. This isn't healthy nor is it likely to be conducive to productivity.

Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now. As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a…

How about moving back home? Your parents will be happy to have you around, cooking will be fun again, they are your best friends. And since there are only 7 zipcodes in the whole US where single men outnumber single women ages 20-40, your dating life may surprisingly improve too!

Listen this is a healthy perspective. Having such clarity about how shitty things are without the perks. Most people sit around years ruminating how crappy all this stuff is and you figured it out pretty quickly.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#76
Never believe stories like this, measuring productivity is an impossible problem. Microsoft spend something in excess of 3 billion dollars trying to quantify productivity in the 90s and they couldn't do it. One of my college professors worked on this exact problem for the Army in the 80s, they created a formal domain specific language for quantifying employee productivity it took them 20 years and several hundred million dollars before they finally realized it wasn't generalizable. They had to scrap the entire project.

It isnt possible to measure employee productivity because its impossible to properly quantify the relative importance of a task. Properly scoping problems is a massive task and finally its impossible to adjust for employees gaming the system, collusion or simply malicious behavior.

Employees always figure out how to abuse productivity metrics.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#77
I think it’s unfortunate that people are taking statistics (or anecdotes) from this period to support or not support WFH. At this point in time, it would be rather audacious for anyone to claim that productivity is more tied to the location of your desk than to the fact that people are working through the apocalypse, and some people are working through more than one “once in a lifetime” disaster. If productivity is down, maybe it’s because we expect people to keep adding to billionaire bottom lines when their entire lives are falling apart, in many cases irreparably??

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#78
post #45

I'm not nearly as productive in my 1 bedroom apartment as I am at the office. I try to only go to my desk during work hours but it's where my dining area would be, so while cooking I like to browse the internet/watch Youtube on my ultrawide monitor. At the same time, it's a small apartment, so the dining area is part of my living room. This means I'm in the same room for pretty much the entirety of the day. I try to…

It sounds a little silly, but a uniform can help. Pick some clothes that are work clothes, put them on when you "go to work" and then switch back out when you're done. Sort of like how changing into gym clothes helps (me anyway) motivate myself to go out and excercise.

It’s a pretty powerful psychological motivator - if I change into my gym clothes there’s no way I’m not working out - imagine going through the trouble to change into your gym clothes and then changing back out without doing anything. To me it’s almost unimaginable.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#79
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to minimize the struggles of suburban parents, but I do feel they might be divorced from what single urban life is like right now. As a "younger" (30 year old) tech employee, in addition to living in a cramped space with 3 roommates in SF with no privacy, I have to work in a dining room because my bedroom has very thin walls. I also have to do cook and clean way more often, when I previously used to get 3 meals a…

how much is your salary for you to be on that living arrangement? sounds awful when 250K/year in SF can't buy any decent living space.

About $450k all in (not FAANG but a mid sized public company in SF I'm sure you've heard of). Fwiw, it wasn't a terrible living space before the pandemic; it just isn't conducive to WFH situations. I'd found that rent controlled spot, and I was paying $1100/mo for a room in an apartment with a backyard, in-unit washer/dryer, and a dishwasher. As a single dude, I really didn't need anything else, I wasn't willing to pay $4000 or whatever for a 1BR, and I just hate moving.

Of course, times have changed, and I think I'll move soon.

But yeah, to your point, pre-Covid SF was absurd in terms of cost of living, and the current exodus just shows how unsustainable it was.

Re: At JPMorgan, productivity falls for younger employees at home

#80

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly can't wait to get back to the office (or any other workspace that isn't my home). I really hate working at home. I don't have enough space or privacy, it becomes far more difficult to partition work and play when they occur in the same spaces / I find myself distracted more easily, and there is no one to socialize with when I'm sitting by myself every day. Could I reme…

I am dreading the one hour travel time and switching there tube lines to get to the office. The inability to be grumpy or annoyed in the office. Enjoying working from home.
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