If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future • Hacker News Board

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#21

Post by loceng » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

dsaavy wrote: post #18

dominotw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

This realization really pushed me away from mainstream media entirely. I explicitly remember and can still find articles about Obama's campaign being cutting edge by using "behavioral data" ( https://theweek.com/articles/451328/how-obama-won-internet ). Yet when the same actions were taken by conservative candidates it was ridiculed. As an independent I just couldn't trust these sources any longer. Yes the methods of…

The solution is to not allow targeting for political ads. Costs will go up as you'll be competing for same eyes, and you'll have to spend more to reach everyone you want - plus has added benefit of allowing to see what messaging and narratives opposition is perpetuating.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#22

Post by dominotw » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #17

mensetmanusman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, the double standard is obvious. I laughed when I read all these articles about Trump which were the same about Obama on this issue, but with a completely different tone.

There isn't a double standard. The criticism of CA is not that data use is bad. It is that they did it in unethical and potentially illegal ways.

> potentially illegal ways.

Is anyone in jail?

Are there any pending legal cases against them?

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#23

Post by mc32 » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #21

dsaavy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This realization really pushed me away from mainstream media entirely. I explicitly remember and can still find articles about Obama's campaign being cutting edge by using "behavioral data" ( https://theweek.com/articles/451328/how-obama-won-internet ). Yet when the same actions were taken by conservative candidates it was ridiculed. As an independent I just couldn't trust these sources any longer. Yes the methods of…

The solution is to not allow targeting for political ads. Costs will go up as you'll be competing for same eyes, and you'll have to spend more to reach everyone you want - plus has added benefit of allowing to see what messaging and narratives opposition is perpetuating.

And for those platforms it’s a plus as well (more political ad income) given the poor quality of the average eyeball.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#24

Post by specialist » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #10

hardlianotion wrote: post #4

Apologies for not reading the article, but the key feature of Cambridge Analytica seems to have been that their stuff didn’t appear to work.

Yes, it did work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22466733 Cambridge Analytica were the tip of the iceberg (graphcommons.com)

Thanks, I somehow missed this, will read shortly.

Meanwhile, one aspect of the 2016 presidential coverage that drives me nuts is the omission that HRC's voter file was stolen and likely used by GOP, Trump, Russia.

Meaning they knew exactly who to target.

A campaign's voter file is it's Crown Jewels, it's secret sauce. It is the campaign.

HRC knew they had a problem in MN, WI, PA. They just couldn't figure out what was going on in time. Plus a zillion other things going on.

Again, will read your link soonest. It might help me fill in a few more of the puzzle pieces.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#25

Post by codegladiator » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #21

dsaavy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This realization really pushed me away from mainstream media entirely. I explicitly remember and can still find articles about Obama's campaign being cutting edge by using "behavioral data" ( https://theweek.com/articles/451328/how-obama-won-internet ). Yet when the same actions were taken by conservative candidates it was ridiculed. As an independent I just couldn't trust these sources any longer. Yes the methods of…

The solution is to not allow targeting for political ads. Costs will go up as you'll be competing for same eyes, and you'll have to spend more to reach everyone you want - plus has added benefit of allowing to see what messaging and narratives opposition is perpetuating.

This will only help existing parties stay in power, and new parties will be doomed to fail.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#26

Post by slg » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #22

slg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a double standard. The criticism of CA is not that data use is bad. It is that they did it in unethical and potentially illegal ways.

> potentially illegal ways. Is anyone in jail? Are there any pending legal cases against them?

Does someone not being in jail somehow prove what they did is legal? Is someone always held individually liable for corporate misdeeds?

There have been multiple fines related to this scandal from multiple governments. There have been Congressional hearings on it in the US. There have been numerous lawsuits. I did say "potentially" in that first comment because I can't say definitively that they acted illegally, but there is a lot of smoke here. If people are going to make the accusation that it is a double standard, where is the smoke surrounding Obama's use of data?

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#27

Post by ryanmarsh » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

Cambridge Analytica was a pissant compared to the data political parties easily buy from advertising data companies. The whole controversy surrounding them is like getting upset about grocery store discount cards but ignoring that Facebook exists.

Also, campaigns don't have to buy or amass that data anymore. Facebook is the largest purchaser of consumer data. So now if you use Facebook for campaign ads you get all that "for free".

Lastly, wait until you find out what the NSA knows about you. Surely that data would never be used for nefarious purposes...

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#28

Post by loceng » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:24 PM UTC

TristanDaCunha wrote: post #20

dashundchen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence the Obama campaign did what Cambridge Analytica/Trump was being criticized for? Which was harvest private data (including messages and news feed) from Facebook users and their friends via an app that was ostensibly non-political, and then in turn sell it to a super PAC that for microtargeting. I'll note that the super PAC involved was likely coordinating with a campaign in violation of FEC campa…

Disclosure: I worked at Cambridge Analytica. Cambridge Analytica were accused of taking data mainly on what pages users 'Liked' - not private messages or news feed. (Unless you have a source?) Obama campaign boasted about having access to the entire friends network. In other words, they know who each person was and what the connections between them were. Facebook openly said that they helped the Obama campaign get an…

Fairly sure that's not anywhere near the whole picture of what CA was accused of? I thought CA ran surveys and from that data could make implications based on the friends and friends if friends of the person who took the survey?

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#29

Post by loceng » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

codegladiator wrote: post #25

loceng wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to not allow targeting for political ads. Costs will go up as you'll be competing for same eyes, and you'll have to spend more to reach everyone you want - plus has added benefit of allowing to see what messaging and narratives opposition is perpetuating.

This will only help existing parties stay in power, and new parties will be doomed to fail.

Look into Andrew Yang's policy proposals - Ranked Choice Voting and Democracy Dollars in particular.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#30

Post by loceng » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #23

loceng wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to not allow targeting for political ads. Costs will go up as you'll be competing for same eyes, and you'll have to spend more to reach everyone you want - plus has added benefit of allowing to see what messaging and narratives opposition is perpetuating.

And for those platforms it’s a plus as well (more political ad income) given the poor quality of the average eyeball.

Interesting question arises - does advertising to Republicans or Democrats cost more or less than the other? Either way the mechanism would be good to level the playing field further.