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Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#141

Post by zymhan »

andrewnicolalde wrote: post #139
calibas wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially scummy when they've also broken the functionality of the back button and all the links are to other BBC articles. It's like the main function of the site is to trap you.

If you're in the US like I am, I think it's because the BBC redirects all non-UK visitors to BBC.com, and so when you hit the back button from BBC.com you get sent back to BBC.co.uk which in turn redirects you to BBC.com. It gets on my nerves too.

I thought back-button hijacking, malicious or accidental, had been solved in browsers years ago. I suppose I need to go search for an extension to fix that instead.

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#142

Post by chriswarbo »

StavrosK wrote: post #37
NathanKP wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An HVAC system above ground would generate far more heat. The advantage of sinking the data center would appear to be that it can function with passive cooling from the surrounding water only, no HVAC. This means less electricity consumption (meaning less energy generation required, and fewer resulting greenhouse gasses). And HVAC systems create far more waste heat than they do cooling, so this passive cooling will j…

The issue is CO2, though, not heat per se. Yes, the two are correlated, but if you use renewables to power your things, it doesn't really matter how much heat you generate. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right that renewably-generated waste heat isn't a big deal all-else-being-equal; but all else usually isn't equal, and climate change is a always question of numbers (my favourite example: extracting a barrel of oil from the air/flue using renewable energy and sequestering it long-term, compared to the cost of leaving a barrel's worth of oil where it is in the ground; the latter is free, except for opportunity cost)

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#143

Post by angry_octet »

Kydlaw wrote: post #51
angry_octet wrote: post #43

Another example of the journalistic malpractice of not linking to the original articles or data. https://natick.research.microsoft.com/ https://news.microsoft.com/innovation-stories/project-natick... One of the facts left unmentioned is that this was built and operated by Naval, the French state-owned submarine and shipbuilding corporation.

I don't get your point? Why is it that relevant to you?

Is it not significant that this level of expertise is required? Do you think Microsoft paid Naval, or did they want to acquire expertise? Why use Naval rather than a civilian focused fabricator?

When you consider the significance of undersea cables to the global economy, the propensity of states to intercept them covertly, the difficulty of attacking or even finding submersed compute, and so on, the ramifications are significantly greater than 'green compute'.

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#145

Post by falcolas »

mc32 wrote: post #135
nexuist wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think jacquesm is off the mark in asking these questions, especially: > what is the direct ecological impact of doing this at scale What is the impact on sea creatures if we put these giant heated cylinders in their territory? Is there any impact? I really doubt we have the answers yet. > at scale ...also implies that there will be more than one. So if one heat cylinder doesn't do anything, what about 10? 100…

There are hot thermal vents and underwater volcanoes throughout the oceans. Creatures adapt. The oceans are huge. Yes, if they place them in ecologically fragile environments that would be a problem —the solution is put them offshore where they don’t bother anything.

> Creatures adapt.

You're missing half the saying. Creatures adapt, or die. Given the recent articles about how species extermination is accelerating, it's a valid assumption that as many are dying as are adapting.

Not to mention, oceanic currents are propelled by heat. Changing that balance (whether by man-made resources or natural sources) could change the currents, which would impact coastal weather patterns.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/will_climate_change_jam_the_g...

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#146

Post by bredren »

s_dev wrote: post #111
Kydlaw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get your point? Why is it that relevant to you?

It rewards originality over the long term rather than the fastest copy and paster. Sort of like how we try link to the original YouTube video.

Understanding what is OC is an increasingly important point for digital content makers, from memes to ideas for explainer videos.

I think with actual articles written by presumed journalists, linking to source data is what establishes the credibility of the author’s writing and suggests they have read and understand the content.

Not linking to it doesn’t mean the author doesn’t understand it, but it may mean their work does nothing more than regurgitate (adds nothing of value apart from increased distribution)

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#147

Post by Godel_unicode »

lawlessone wrote: post #41
Shivetya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they why not create artificial bodies of water and just keep our data centers there? How much water is sufficient for the cooling cycle to not require additional energy? How much water will need to be added to such pools to deal with evaporation? I think on a smaller scale test with an artificial pool would provide some solid answers. We could even put solar panels across the surface to limit wind and solar evap…

You'd have to pump loads of water for it then? to fill the pool and replace what is lost to evaporation. "I think on a smaller scale test with an artificial pool would provide some solid answers. We could even put solar panels across the surface to limit wind and solar evaporation effects " If it's artificial pool you'd need evaporation to cool it.

Do you not consider lake Powell to be an artificial body of water?

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#148

Post by scrollaway »

falcolas wrote: post #145
mc32 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are hot thermal vents and underwater volcanoes throughout the oceans. Creatures adapt. The oceans are huge. Yes, if they place them in ecologically fragile environments that would be a problem —the solution is put them offshore where they don’t bother anything.

> Creatures adapt. You're missing half the saying. Creatures adapt, or die. Given the recent articles about how species extermination is accelerating, it's a valid assumption that as many are dying as are adapting. Not to mention, oceanic currents are propelled by heat. Changing that balance (whether by man-made resources or natural sources) could change the currents, which would impact coastal weather patterns. http…

Far more of earth is covered by oceans than by land. Why are these questions more relevant when building an underwater DC than a ground-level one?

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#149

Post by codetrotter »

andrewnicolalde wrote: post #139
calibas wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially scummy when they've also broken the functionality of the back button and all the links are to other BBC articles. It's like the main function of the site is to trap you.

If you're in the US like I am, I think it's because the BBC redirects all non-UK visitors to BBC.com, and so when you hit the back button from BBC.com you get sent back to BBC.co.uk which in turn redirects you to BBC.com. It gets on my nerves too.

Could be but I am also seeing a trend where some websites manipulate the navigation history so that when you click the back button in your browser you end up at their home page even if you came to the page you are currently on via some other site.

I first saw this on Facebook but I have since seen even sites that I used to respect follow this same pattern.

To me this is nothing but another dark pattern.

Re: Microsoft's underwater data centre resurfaces after two years

#150

Post by revax »

tedsanders wrote: post #104
revax wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basic thermodynamics stuff. Looks like energy used in datacenter in 2018 was around 200TWh. If you use all this energy to heat only the mediterranean sea, you will have a change of temperature of 0.00006°C. I used this calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/specific-heat

FYI, your comment is wildly misleading. Thermal pollution is real and has a wide research literature. The worry is not that that the average temperature of the oceans will rise. The worry is that the local temperature of the ocean will rise. This is exactly what happens with other forms of thermal pollution. One example studied for decades was California's San Onofre nuclear power generating station. It has been subj…

Thank you for your insightful comments, I stand corrected. I didn't think of the local effects.
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