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If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

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Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#11

Post by drewda »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #8

Recent lengthy New Yorker article on the same topic, Simulmatics in the JFK presidential campaign: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/03/how-the-simulm... And a couple subsequent letters from readers on the article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/07/letters-from-t... The New Yorker article was odd to me for a New Yorker article, it had a lot of historical context without a lot of details of what S…

FYI, these are all excerpts or reviews of the same book by the historian Jill Lepore. (I've quite enjoyed her writing over the years and highly recommend it.)

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#12

Post by sandwall »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #8

Recent lengthy New Yorker article on the same topic, Simulmatics in the JFK presidential campaign: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/03/how-the-simulm... And a couple subsequent letters from readers on the article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/07/letters-from-t... The New Yorker article was odd to me for a New Yorker article, it had a lot of historical context without a lot of details of what S…

Read this first: https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/19/1006365/if-then-...

Thought the NPR article was well enough to share, but preferred the MIT piece (albeit behind a paywall)

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#13

Post by losteric »

mhh__ wrote: post #7
cryptoz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only seen this concept on HN and not elsewhere. Can you explain what you mean? What about CA “didn’t appear to work”? I went researching just now and didn’t find anything online to back up that vague opinion, so what exactly do you mean? There is certainly no way to know to what extent CA content changed voter patterns and actions. I don’t understand how you could be so confident you are right.

Some people (largely on the left) like to treat Cambridge Analytica as a dark boogey-man that broke politics. This is partly true, however, a lot of hysteria around it is based off taking CA's marketing copy at face value. The Cruz campaign (IIRC) fired them because they were useless.

However, if CA is capable of delivering one should view them as more than “just“ a business... Perhaps CA’s owners found more value in not helping Cruz win?

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#14

Post by mensetmanusman »

dominotw wrote: post #9
mc32 wrote: post #2

What’s fascinating is that prior to CA helping targeting in the previous election cycle, this capability was kind of embraced by politicians and industry as the next evolution in political campaigning... but few recognized an issue with that kind of data usage at the time...

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

Ya, the double standard is obvious. I laughed when I read all these articles about Trump which were the same about Obama on this issue, but with a completely different tone.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#16

Post by jrochkind1 »

drewda wrote: post #11
jrochkind1 wrote: post #8

Recent lengthy New Yorker article on the same topic, Simulmatics in the JFK presidential campaign: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/03/how-the-simulm... And a couple subsequent letters from readers on the article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/07/letters-from-t... The New Yorker article was odd to me for a New Yorker article, it had a lot of historical context without a lot of details of what S…

FYI, these are all excerpts or reviews of the same book by the historian Jill Lepore. (I've quite enjoyed her writing over the years and highly recommend it.)

Jill Lepore is also a staff writer at New Yorker, whose writing appears regularly in it.

But I guess her recent book is one reason why all these media outlets are covering the same historical topic right now!

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#17

Post by slg »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #14
dominotw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

Ya, the double standard is obvious. I laughed when I read all these articles about Trump which were the same about Obama on this issue, but with a completely different tone.

There isn't a double standard. The criticism of CA is not that data use is bad. It is that they did it in unethical and potentially illegal ways.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#18

Post by dsaavy »

dominotw wrote: post #9
mc32 wrote: post #2

What’s fascinating is that prior to CA helping targeting in the previous election cycle, this capability was kind of embraced by politicians and industry as the next evolution in political campaigning... but few recognized an issue with that kind of data usage at the time...

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

This realization really pushed me away from mainstream media entirely. I explicitly remember and can still find articles about Obama's campaign being cutting edge by using "behavioral data" (https://theweek.com/articles/451328/how-obama-won-internet). Yet when the same actions were taken by conservative candidates it was ridiculed. As an independent I just couldn't trust these sources any longer.

Yes the methods of data collection were slightly different between Obama's campaign and what Cambridge Analytica did and sold to conservative candidates. Obama's campaign claimed they didn't do as much with the data and it was within the FB ToS, but these claims don't change the ethics and since 2004 both parties have been building their data infrastructure out to sway voters (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/10/obamas-secret-we...).

Both parties are nefarious in their use of data and attempt to persuade voters through micro-targeted outrage, and it makes me wary of ever voting for either of the two parties' candidate.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#19

Post by dashundchen »

dominotw wrote: post #9
mc32 wrote: post #2

What’s fascinating is that prior to CA helping targeting in the previous election cycle, this capability was kind of embraced by politicians and industry as the next evolution in political campaigning... but few recognized an issue with that kind of data usage at the time...

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

Is there any evidence the Obama campaign did what Cambridge Analytica/Trump was being criticized for?

Which was harvest private data (including messages and news feed) from Facebook users and their friends via an app that was ostensibly non-political, and then in turn sell it to a super PAC that for microtargeting. I'll note that the super PAC involved was likely coordinating with a campaign in violation of FEC campaign finance laws.

The CA scandal resulted in a $5 billion fine to Facebook by the FTC.

I think it's disingenuous to say what the Obama campaign and Trump/Cambridge did were close to the same.

Re: If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future

#20

Post by TristanDaCunha »

dashundchen wrote: post #19
dominotw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember media singing praises for Obama campaign about how effective they were with social media. Using that to contrast him to mccain who apprently didn't know how to use email.

Is there any evidence the Obama campaign did what Cambridge Analytica/Trump was being criticized for? Which was harvest private data (including messages and news feed) from Facebook users and their friends via an app that was ostensibly non-political, and then in turn sell it to a super PAC that for microtargeting. I'll note that the super PAC involved was likely coordinating with a campaign in violation of FEC campa…

Disclosure: I worked at Cambridge Analytica.

Cambridge Analytica were accused of taking data mainly on what pages users 'Liked' - not private messages or news feed. (Unless you have a source?)

Obama campaign boasted about having access to the entire friends network. In other words, they know who each person was and what the connections between them were. Facebook openly said that they helped the Obama campaign get and utilise 100% of the friends network data on Facebook.

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