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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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131–140 of 266 posts

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#131

I couldn’t help but thinking of the movie/documentary itself as an act of manipulation and an attempt to distract from the real issue. The real problem is the way big venture capital is funding these companies. Allowing them to become so big, while suppressing all competition in order to concentrate profits. This is what has made these companies into the monsters they are now. In this era of big tech focus has shifte…

I'd wager a movie on a mass distribution platform like Netflix is going to be more effective at making people aware of the problem and help them mitigate its effects on an individual basis... than, say, trying to change the way capital flows.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#132
post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

>I don’t agree that belief in pseudoscience, rumor, or superstition is anymore prevalent than it was before social media. I think it’s just more visible to everyone how many people do believe wacky ideas.

I think this is a key point. In particular I think educated people (for want of a better term) are often dangerously out of touch with how many people (particularly internationally) don't share their worldview. I remember the first time having dinner with a family and finding out I was the only person at the table who believed in Darwinian evolution. I was shocked because these people weren't even particularly religious. Up to that point, except for strict religious people I don't think I'd even spoken to someone who didn't believe in evolution. Or at least, it never came up.

And this is the point really - what social media does do is increase social friction on these topics. I worked with a guy who didn't believe dinosaurs existed (also not religious). After the initial debates it was fairly easy to just let it rest since he was a nice guy and completely sane on all other topics. But if this had been on social media if I had seen anti-dinosaur posts on a regular basis that would probably have got to me eventually and I would have blocked him. Even though, in social terms it doesn't matter if he believes in dinosaurs or not.

The other thing it does is make people feel less embarrassed of holding particular viewpoints. Lots more people than you might think believe in witches and curses but (quite rightly) think they'll be ridiculed if they discuss this too openly. But if you're on a Facebook group where everyone believes in witchcraft it starts to feel like a legitimate opinion. And then someone else sees one of your pro-witch posts and suddenly there's a discussion about where all this new belief in witches came from. This kind of conflict drives a shitload of activity and makes everyone involved feel bad one way or another.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#133
post #49
post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

The harms of social media are understated. I live in Brazil. Social media was one of the main reasons of the election of our president, Bolsonaro. Now we have more than 130.000 deaths from coronavirus, the Amazon and Pantanal are burning, our institutions are crumbling. My fellow software developers aren't just make some far way teenagers depressed. This is is real harm in the real world.

Most systems won’t change overnight because of the guy on top. What makes you so sure Brazil would have done better with the opposing party candidate as president?

Maybe the problem lies in a supposedly chronically underfunded healthcare system, by a number of previous administrations? This would then reflect, in an electoral democracy, of the citizenry’s misplaced priorities.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#134

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

what about something like a non-profit? I was quite disappointed that keybase.io sold to zoom. I always thought more of it like a neutral public utility.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#135
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harms of social media are understated. I live in Brazil. Social media was one of the main reasons of the election of our president, Bolsonaro. Now we have more than 130.000 deaths from coronavirus, the Amazon and Pantanal are burning, our institutions are crumbling. My fellow software developers aren't just make some far way teenagers depressed. This is is real harm in the real world.

Have you considered that the root problem may be that a plurality of voting Brazilians are simply terrible people? Fascists rose before with radio and newspapers once and there wasn't any meaningful changes preventing the usage for such and yet they didn't reoccur indefinitely in the same nation. Stop blaming the tech and start blaming your countrymen for being awful people.

Sorry, but this sounds mean.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#136
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

Speaking as someone who came from a rather colorful childhood of abuse, I'm wondering what your personal past is? You're assuming so much about the lives that folks lead, and to me it speaks of a lack of empathy for the personal struggles each individual is enduring. Stoicism will fix things in the west? I assume you mean the USA, but as a person in the USA, I have to say that we are about as stoic as you can get. We…

Stoicism would be helpful because of how common emotional manipulation is as a vector from sociopaths and how those they manipulate wind up /acting/ almost indistinguishable from sociopaths except they don't even remotely serve their own interests. Look at the Covidiots spreading disease because a politician doesn't want to admit the obvious - that they fucked up big time.

Or the long list of fucking stupid moral panics oriented around children from people trying to get reelected and everything "satanic" which ironically enough many children could have told them was just plain dumb. While empathy would be good emotions alone aren't enough as even "a desire to protect one's offspring" may be twisted horrifically. Community I am deeply skeptical of as a value in itself given how often it winds up something deeply toxic and stupid from acting like dumb herd animals. Sure internal investment would be good but given their record community itself can piss off.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#137
Doubtful it will have much impact. I don't buy the central premise of the film - social media is so addictive and people are easily manipulated by it - through the power of 'genius' algorithms that work against vast stores of data. There is no mention of freewill .. are we really so easily controlled? If this technology was so powerful and able to manipulate people - how are we not using it to end racism, effect climate change, teach basic math skills, fight obesity, etc. The reason is that the technology isn't that good - and at it's best it suggests things that appeal to our base nature. It doesn't control us or even come close. Also the fucking hubris of these people to think they really had that big of an impact is a bit much. Free will and human nature are real things and social media isn't that powerful. Also with free will comes personal responsibility - this film seems to suggest that we are such sad victims and the problem isn't us but the powers that be. I'm so weak that I can't help myself - so it must be social media's fault. Give me a break.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#138
post #131

I couldn’t help but thinking of the movie/documentary itself as an act of manipulation and an attempt to distract from the real issue. The real problem is the way big venture capital is funding these companies. Allowing them to become so big, while suppressing all competition in order to concentrate profits. This is what has made these companies into the monsters they are now. In this era of big tech focus has shifte…

I'd wager a movie on a mass distribution platform like Netflix is going to be more effective at making people aware of the problem and help them mitigate its effects on an individual basis... than, say, trying to change the way capital flows.

My point is that it’s easy to make an argument about this aspect of SM than to talk about the money, trace it, and pinpoint blame. Nowadays, there is plenty of evidence available about the psychological effects/harm of social media. So it’s easy/harmless to fund this kind of exposition than anything that talks about the finance side.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#139

It was a good explanation of some issues with current social media platforms. But I don't think that ad driven business models and algorithmic content manipulation are the biggest problems we are facing in all this. The fundamental problem is we humans aren't wired to deal with information and social connection and this scale and speed. It's too easy for just about anyone to find and confirm anything they want to bel…

I think you're underestimating the power of algorithmic manipulation.

Take a simple ecommerce AB test as a starting point. Should our shopping cart look like A or B? Apply Bayes theorem and it doesn't take that long to gather evidence that A increases conversions by 1%.

Now replace the simple AB test with a multi armed bandit.

Now run the multi armed bandit continuously across all social media platforms and keep tweaking to maximize sentiment in your favor.

That's even without applying data science to the social network graph.

The "fundamental problem" that you lay out is definitely related. The "fundamental problem" is that we are so susceptible to such algorithmic manipulation.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#140

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

The regulatory capture is the key bit.
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