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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#31

Post by nip180 »

It was very ironic that Netflix, who once said that sleep is there biggest competition, releases a documentary about how it’s rivals in the attention economy are harmful.

Yes, Netflix doesn’t advertise directly to me, but many of the effects are still present. The way I think and behave can be changed by programming I watch on Netflix. Netflix uses a recommendation engine to keep me engaged. Netflix has implemented several design patterns to keep people engaged, such as auto loading the next episode.

It was specifically ironic for them to attack YouTube for kids while Netflix has a children’s offering, and most of the known downsides about screen time for children applies wether or not advertisements are present.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#32

Post by save_ferris »

alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful.

I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much.

It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ignore the fact that these companies hired experts in psychology and paid millions to keep people using their apps, just like child psychologists were deployed to TV advertising in the 80s and 90s? These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be.

Spending hours in an infinite scroll wormhole does not automatically mean you’ve derived something important or worthwhile. It just means you were entertained enough by the possibility something might be good if you just keep scrolling, and that’s a problem for some.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#34

Post by alexmingoia »

save_ferris wrote: post #32
alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

I spend lots of time reading. Is reading an addiction? I don’t think spending time on something is necessarily an addiction. Can social media be an addiction? Sure, in the same way videgames can be an addiction. I wouldn’t go as far as saying video games are harmful. Social media is also different in that it’s a means of communication. It does have utility for communicating whereas video games or drinking doesn’t.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#35

Post by rapnie »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

> Don't tell me that Mastodon and Mastodon clones can be replacements for Twitter, Facebook, Facebook groups, Facebook events, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc.

Of course not. Because Mastodon is a federated microblogging service. As that it is a good alternative for Twitter. My Mastodon client has a better UX than twitter, no algorithmic feed, no ads, no trackers, no distracting recommendations, and - importantly - breathing a friendly, open and largely non-toxic culture.

Sure, it only has a tiny number of users in comparison to twitter (about 4 million), but there is no reason this can be many many more. And hosted on a federation of 1,000's of servers. Much less risk to be de-platformed from your favorite walled-garden for obscure reasons.

The Fediverse is only at the start of its evolution, and things are becoming exciting for us devs. Diverse applications, PeerTube, PixelFed, write.as, Lemmy, many more, all start to be integrated together. A gradual process, as the underlying standards mature and new ones (content addressing, object capabilities, datashards) are being developed. Besides federated ActivityPub there's work ongoing to extend to full p2p contexts.

I'd say you should have Developer FOMO. To miss out on opportunities to stand out, and be part of a path that could be part of the solution to our social dilemma :)

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#36

Post by blueterminal »

save_ferris wrote: post #32
alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be.

Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't lead to any positive solutions. We desperately need stoicism in the west.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#37

Post by jacobush »

nip180 wrote: post #31

It was very ironic that Netflix, who once said that sleep is there biggest competition, releases a documentary about how it’s rivals in the attention economy are harmful. Yes, Netflix doesn’t advertise directly to me, but many of the effects are still present. The way I think and behave can be changed by programming I watch on Netflix. Netflix uses a recommendation engine to keep me engaged. Netflix has implemented s…

I appreciate the irony, but as a parent I can say that I much prefer my children on Netflix than on Youtube. (Caveat - there is more deeply interesting content on Youtube, but its pieces of civilisation flotsam to be salvaged from a river of shit.)

Plus your last paragraph I just don't agree with at all, ads for kids definitely has a huge impact, it was not just moral panic that made that regulated in the TV space many years ago. Youtube is so full of ads and undeclared (not that it matters to kids if its declared, and doubtful it matters much for adults either) product placement.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#38

Post by messo »

alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

I am not categorically against ads on online platforms (or offline for that mater), but I do have a problem with the power these companies have gained by gathering and analyzing fine-grained data-points on us and our behavior. The fact that most people only have a very vague idea about how these systems work and how much data is collected is worrying.

The fine grained control over who you can show ads to is a problem in itself and a tool ripe for exploitation by anyone who wants to nudge certain demographics in any direction they want, political or otherwise. We have seen several examples on how wrong this can go already.

> I don’t agree that belief in pseudoscience, rumor, or superstition is anymore prevalent than it was before social media.

I have seen up close and personal how a combination of Facebook and Youtube's algorithms have cleverly identified and massively amplified certain tendencies in people I'm close to. That is a personal, political and societal problem we should not ignore.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#39

Post by aaron695 »

It was well done. It certainly understood how social media works far better than anything I've seen on HN. Which is interesting when you are aiming at non technical users.

The back end minions were well done as an explanation.

It did well to be bipartisan. "Extreme centre" was clever. Their examples were sometimes political but it's hard to know how to have bipartisan real world examples, but they seemed to try.

I think it'll have a far reach and it will affect people, but there's no solution, what would you protest and where?

"Gasland", "Waco: The Rules of Engagement", "Blackfish", "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" all seemed to be actionable for instance. It's easy to buy guns, or go to a protest or ditch your meds.

For "The Social Dilemma" it's hard to change everyday life and it's hard to legislate algorithms where no one knows how they work.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#40

Post by ccortes »

alxmng wrote: post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

>The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful.

I think the point of the movie is to show that it is addictive and harmful and it is built that way intentionally. And it gets worse for younger generations.

>Regardless, social media isn’t going to suddenly make me believe the moon landing was fake, so I don’t see it as being harmful.

Maybe not the moon landing, but it can make you believe many other things with out you even noticing.

We've seen examples of this already, there's nothing new here.

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