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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#11

Post by Everhusk »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

We are building a solution with social.network, it's not fully completed yet but please keep an eye on it towards the end of the year.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#12

Post by messo »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

> Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know, I liked the movie very much for its presentation […]

This is exactly the same impression I had after watching the movie. There was little new information in this movie for me, other than the interviews with leading developers that now has turned on their own creation. That was quite powerful to watch.

> As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much.

The cynical part of me agrees with you. The hopeful part of me is encouraged by the fact that this movie communicates rather technical and boring information in a very human way, and that it shows how algorithm manipulates you, not some random folks that was targeted by Cambridge Analytica. This was much more relatable and personal than during the news coverage on how Facebook and Twitter was (ab)used during the last election, and that gives me hope.

The discussion has largely been relevant to political animals, nerds and idealistic people so far, and this movie feels like the first real brake out of that sphere and into the popular culture.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#13

Post by trabant00 »

newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

> While I've been enraged for a long time about these platforms, the big gap here is that there is no good answer to the question, "what are the better alternatives?"

This assumes we want something to replace these platforms. I for one want no social media. I admit I can't prove they are damaging no matter the implementation but I challenge anybody to prove the contrary.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#15

Post by Everhusk »

The movie does a great job at explaining the real problem behind our current version of online social networks. We need to start developing much more advanced systems that have the communication tools that Facebook and Instagram have, but also innovate on the financial markets/governance systems that the most advanced nation states have.

The is the only way out of this problem is to accept that governments and regulators are not going to be able to fix this, and create a new one that is owned by the people. And as you see from the movie, the chances of us hitting singularity with an AI coupled to an optimization function that domesticates humans for profit, is highly likely. It's probably one of the greatest challenges of our generation, and the hardest part is that over time the people you need to change the system are so addicted to the crack that it gives them, that they won't want to.

I do think movies like this are extremely important on getting the message out though, and hope that it enacts some changes. Me and a few engineers are working on a solution at social.network, let me know if you are interested in helping out.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#16

Post by messo »

Everhusk wrote: post #11
newscracker wrote: post #8

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

We are building a solution with social.network, it's not fully completed yet but please keep an eye on it towards the end of the year.

I'm applauding every effort to compete with the big players, but I also hope that anyone who spend time trying to solve these problems builds interoperable systems (open protocols etc).

What I really like about the ActivityPub protocol (though it is not perfect), is the way it makes permissionless innovation a thing again. People can build tools and communities to their liking and at the same time be a part of a much larger ecosystem. One example is a rather fresh project based on this protocol, trying to recreate reddit/HN's functionality, only federated: https://dev.narwhal.city/ (https://git.sr.ht/~vpzom/lotide)

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#17

Post by Everhusk »

messo wrote: post #16
Everhusk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are building a solution with social.network, it's not fully completed yet but please keep an eye on it towards the end of the year.

I'm applauding every effort to compete with the big players, but I also hope that anyone who spend time trying to solve these problems builds interoperable systems (open protocols etc). What I really like about the ActivityPub protocol (though it is not perfect), is the way it makes permissionless innovation a thing again. People can build tools and communities to their liking and at the same time be a part of a much…

Yeah we will be open sourcing it, mostly the governance/economic model will be built on parity substrate so anyone can deploy or upgrade that system. I think solving the ad driven business model is much more important than decentralizing the content servers, hard to meet the UI/UX standards most people have when you go this route also.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#18

Post by hungryfoolish »

robjan wrote: post #7
nikivi wrote: post #2

I personally never understood the value of ads. I subconsciously turn off my brain and press skip whenever I encounter any kind of ad because I know it was made to influence me into doing an action (and I don't want to waste any mental energy in evaluating whether I am being tricked or not). And most ads are bad: https://twitter.com/JonErlichman/status/1304793136494006272 So to me the whole thing simply doesn't make…

Many people buy things after seeing ads. I was running an e-commerce where the majority of customers came either from direct ads or indirect advertising like influencer marketing. It's a great way to gain new customers for a product business (although in my view the "lifestyle brand" space is pretty saturated now).

Also, there is nothing wrong in advertising as a concept. Advertising has existed as long as products have existed. The problem is tracking and data collection/exploitation about some very granular aspects of users.

Also, even if you take away advertising, the problem remains of addictive apps and 'persuasive' design which will still remain. To tackle that is a whole different discussion altogether.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#19

Post by iamwpj »

I'm tired of every few months we all have to rediscover how our complicated obsession with social media and the resulting data collection based advertising is leading to a total loss of individuality and privacy.

We (society) need to know these things and act according.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#20

Post by Nextgrid »

rogerdoger123 wrote: post #5

The problem is that many people, including my wife, are OK being shown ads. After watching the documentary, I uninstalled Instagram and logged off Facebook as I hated the thought of being manipulated. My wife (and her friends for that matter) though concerned over the impact to kids, was back on Instagram about an hour later. "I'm ok with all these ads, some are useful". So though it should help parents navigate this…

I think that advertising is the main problem. Most issues caused by social media ultimately originate from this way to generate money out of wasting people's time. Cut that source of revenue and suddenly there is no longer any incentive to get people addicted, encourage outrage, promote misinformation/clickbait, etc.

Related: http://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2019-07-31-ads-as-cancer.html (I totally agree with all of it)

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