Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century • Hacker News Board

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#21

Post by prower » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:30 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #2

I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile normal challenges and hardships in life with what is defined as “stress”? In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful. At the same time stress is a negative thing that affects your health. It’s not clear to me what is defined as stress - I’ve read nu…

> In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful

Thing is, maybe a boring and uneventful life is all some people want. That doens't mean that nothing should happen at all, but what's the point of enduring constant stress if there is no "boring and uneventful" phase between one stressful event and the other? The boring part should be the default state and the ultimate goal you work towards during stressful times.

It's like saying that everyone should work not because they need money to survive, but because "life without work is boring". I, for one, would do perfectly fine without that daily task, thanks.

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#22

Post by deathtrader666 » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:34 AM UTC

kiba wrote: post #4

kernel_pancake wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t one define ‘useful’ and ‘useless’ stress? For example, stress experienced when learning something challenging would be useful stress, while ruminating about issues we have no control over would be useless stress.

I never feel stressed about a really annoying and thorny programming problem, no matter how frustrating it is or seemly insurmountable it is. Ditto for learning anything new. Yet, I would feel stressed about grades and passing, which is entirely different from actual mastery.

A difficult programming problem in isolation is something I, too, enjoy.

There's no enjoyment though when the project manager (any other exec) demands that it be solved within a very short time. This is no time for eustress, when I'm being asked for status updates twice a day for 5 days.

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#23

Post by burntoutfire » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #11

Existential dread is like the background radiation of stress for this era - the constant worry that the climate will change more rapidly than anticipated, that reified systems will collapse, that unrest and chaos will spread. Add to that the expectation of constant availability and instantaneous response, the expectation of unmitigated success, the expectation of having a soaring career and being a good parent and im…

> Existential dread is like the background radiation of stress for this era - the constant worry that the climate will change more rapidly than anticipated, that reified systems will collapse, that unrest and chaos will spread.

That's not existential dread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Angst_and_dread

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#24

Post by blanche_ » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

kernel_pancake wrote: post #3

systemvoltage wrote: post #2

I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile normal challenges and hardships in life with what is defined as “stress”? In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful. At the same time stress is a negative thing that affects your health. It’s not clear to me what is defined as stress - I’ve read nu…

Can’t one define ‘useful’ and ‘useless’ stress? For example, stress experienced when learning something challenging would be useful stress, while ruminating about issues we have no control over would be useless stress.

You can also look at how it influences you, like bad stress in making you unable to cope and can cause some mental health issues. At one point there can be just too much, in dog training that is called threshold and individuals have their own capacity. So 3 life events that you would handle no problem separately, could be way worse when they happen at once.

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#25

Post by LatteLazy » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:51 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #2

I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile normal challenges and hardships in life with what is defined as “stress”? In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful. At the same time stress is a negative thing that affects your health. It’s not clear to me what is defined as stress - I’ve read nu…

A few lines that help me:

Stress is when you're responsible for something you cannot actually control. Anything else might be pressure or life. But if you cannot control it, you can't actually be responsible for it...

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#26

Post by zuhayeer » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:54 AM UTC

"The very structures, processes which keep the lights on, our economies running and our governments functioning create the conditions which remove people from experiencing nature, the unexpected joy of boredom and developing strong social and community bonds."

This reminded me of Maker's Schedule vs Manager's Schedule and how this is largely a result of packing our calendars into hour to hour increments Monday - Friday stuck in this rotisserie motion. Empty your calendar and see how you can experience "the unexpected joy of boredom" and randomness – maybe you'll visit the beach tomorrow and still get more done in a half day than you do in a week.

http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#27

Post by cmendel » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #23

madaxe_again wrote: post #11

Existential dread is like the background radiation of stress for this era - the constant worry that the climate will change more rapidly than anticipated, that reified systems will collapse, that unrest and chaos will spread. Add to that the expectation of constant availability and instantaneous response, the expectation of unmitigated success, the expectation of having a soaring career and being a good parent and im…

> Existential dread is like the background radiation of stress for this era - the constant worry that the climate will change more rapidly than anticipated, that reified systems will collapse, that unrest and chaos will spread. That's not existential dread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Angst_and_dread

Existential dread is not used in the sense of Existentialism but in the sense of existence.

So rather than:

Existentialism -> dread it is instead

existence -> dread

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#28

Post by arvinsim » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

zuhayeer wrote: post #26

"The very structures, processes which keep the lights on, our economies running and our governments functioning create the conditions which remove people from experiencing nature, the unexpected joy of boredom and developing strong social and community bonds." This reminded me of Maker's Schedule vs Manager's Schedule and how this is largely a result of packing our calendars into hour to hour increments Monday - Frid…

I made the mistake of applying the hourly schedule to my personal life and it's horrible.

I had to always update my calendar seems things never go as planned. I also was having anxiety even in my off days since I feel that I have to "hit" the schedules planned out in my calendar.

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#29

Post by kiba » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #9

systemvoltage wrote: post #2

I’ve never been satisfied with the definition of stress. My dad always said “If things are going good, that means you’re not trying.” How do you reconcile normal challenges and hardships in life with what is defined as “stress”? In some ways, life without stress is boring and uneventful. At the same time stress is a negative thing that affects your health. It’s not clear to me what is defined as stress - I’ve read nu…

Actually in psychology there is exactly that distiction between two types of stress: Eustress and Distress. The first, eustress is what you could call 'positive' stress, stress that you can cope with and that induces change, growth, and learned experience. The second, Distress is stress that is too much for you to cope with either in type or intensity, it's the type of stress that would likely trigger a physical flig…

Exercise just doesn't register as stress to me, although you could call it stress.

For me, stress is about negative outcomes.

Re: Long-term stress is the default mode of the 21st century

#30

Post by LatteLazy » Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 10:09 AM UTC

We support ever more people not working. That means workers have to work harder for a smaller share. So workers suffer long term stress. So more of them drop out of work and the problem gets worse...