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The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

newyorker.com

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Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#21

Post by ultramundane8 »

rrauenza wrote: post #11
dheera wrote: post #2

Personally I say abolish the electoral colleges to ensure that every vote actually matters. That alone will reduce voter apathy and get more people actually out there voting.

Consider that our current president is a populist and it could be argued that he only didn't win the popular vote because he didn't focus on that, but rather on the electoral college. I think the founding fathers would cite our current president as the reason they didn't trust direct democracy... It's food for thought whenever I think about pushing more towards direct democracy. I've been leaning towards proportional…

I really can't grant that first paragraph in good faith without some evidence.

How could you possibly divine the intent of the 2016 Trump campaign? We still can't agree on a vast number of its actions, let alone its strategy.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#22

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

As others have pointed out, changing the Electoral College is a really big task.

However, there is a similar kind of injustice, that is much easier to get rid of.

In the NBA Championships and MLB World Series, not every basket and run counts the same. Some are worth more than others. This is because instead of just counting the total number of points scored in the whole series of games and making the team with the most total points the winner, we arcanely insist, on splitting those points up by game, and making the winner of the series, the team that wins the majority of the games. You can easily end up with a series, where the team that actually has fewer points, wins the series, because those points were scored more strategically across the games. As should be obvious, that is an injustice. This type of arrangement might be understood in the past where we did not have the Internet and instant communication and had to rely on slower forms of news with less bandwidth, so being able to summarize a series as tied at 3 games apiece was easier than trying to give the entire score. But now, there is no reason to retain this archaic system. We should just consider total points scored. All points should be equal!

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#23

Post by HeavenFox »

HideousKojima wrote: post #4

The fight against the electoral college is one of those things that misses the forest for the trees. The real problem is that too much power has been vested in the federal government (and in the executive branch specifically), and too much power has been taken from the states. People would care a lot less about how the president gets elected if he didn't have so much control over the entire country.

I agree with you; in practice, however, when Alabama enacts anti-abortion law New Yorkers get pissed; when New Jersey enacts anti-gun law Texans get pissed. Everyone want to push their favorite ideology nationwide and the federal government grows as a result.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#24

Post by arthens »

HideousKojima wrote: post #4

The fight against the electoral college is one of those things that misses the forest for the trees. The real problem is that too much power has been vested in the federal government (and in the executive branch specifically), and too much power has been taken from the states. People would care a lot less about how the president gets elected if he didn't have so much control over the entire country.

What a weird take.

The idea that America could keep the same broken and easy to manipulate electoral system if only the president had less power is ridiculous.

The election process is worth fixing no matter how powerful or not powerful the elected official is.

Stop pushing your small government agenda on HN.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#25

Post by thayne »

baron816 wrote: post #14

I’ve long been in favor of rewriting the constitution. Everyone hates how the government operates—courts are politicized and at risk of being captured, the legislature is at a constant impasse, everything is hyper partisan, the executive is either way too powerful, or not powerful enough. The only things people can point to that they like about the constitution are the first amendment, and sometimes the second and fo…

I remember one of my teachers proudly saying how great the constitution was since it has hardly changed in 200 years. I now realize that while the constitution was great for it's time, the fact that we haven't changed it to apply what we've learned from both our own experience, and that of other democracie, or account for changes in technology and society, is not a good thing.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#26

Post by stmfreak »

baron816 wrote: post #14

I’ve long been in favor of rewriting the constitution. Everyone hates how the government operates—courts are politicized and at risk of being captured, the legislature is at a constant impasse, everything is hyper partisan, the executive is either way too powerful, or not powerful enough. The only things people can point to that they like about the constitution are the first amendment, and sometimes the second and fo…

With the way our legislature and senators are captives of lobbyists, global dictators and billionaires today, what makes you think a rewrite would be in your best interests?

Or do you imagine the little people like us would have a say in such a rewrite?

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#27

Post by labster »

oldertimer wrote: post #19

Dump states too while you're at it. Might as well divide people up by watersheds or timezones or tectonic plates.

That’s why they keep mining coal in West Virginia and Wyoming. Florida and Delaware will be under water and mountain states will be sitting pretty.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#28

Post by compycom »

platz wrote: post #7

The electoral college itself isn't really the issue. It's the fact that states use winner-take-all apportionment of electors. Unlike the electoral college, winner-take-all apportionment isn't mandated in the constitution. You could have the electoral college and also distribute electors according to the share of popular vote each party received in that state.

It's still an issue in that this wouldn't afford equal representation. The way the number of electors is determined is {senators + members of congress + 3}. Since the senate affords massively more representation per person to rural states, rural states will be overrepresented in this system as well.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#29

Post by jackcosgrove »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #20
striking wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta... already exists and is 73% of the way to coming into effect. No need for amendments when you have clever legal hackery!

It's the last 20% that's the hardest, though (apart from the first 1%). No state with Republican leadership will ever sign it, because they know that they depend on minority rule. That means that the Democrats effectively have to run enough states to control the Electoral College anyway, and winning enough branches of a state legislature to pass laws is generally more difficult than winning that state in a presidenti…

> You also have the judiciary to worry about. It's not obvious that the NPVIC is constitutional

Interstate compacts without the blessing of the federal government are unconstitutional. This is because the federal government has sovereign power over interstate relations, and a bloc of states that coordinate action are effectively challenging that sovereign power. So if the NPVIC is passed, it would also need to be approved by federal legislation to be deemed constitutional.

Re: The Case for Dumping the Electoral College

#30

Post by Areading314 »

baron816 wrote: post #14

I’ve long been in favor of rewriting the constitution. Everyone hates how the government operates—courts are politicized and at risk of being captured, the legislature is at a constant impasse, everything is hyper partisan, the executive is either way too powerful, or not powerful enough. The only things people can point to that they like about the constitution are the first amendment, and sometimes the second and fo…

There is a mechanism to amend the constitution, which has been used numerous times over the years, as the country and culture have shifted. I think it's somewhat naive to think, especially in the current climate, that a rewriting of the constitution would do anything to serve the people.
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