Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 131 posts

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#101

Post by jsjohnst »

ddingus wrote: post #100
jsjohnst wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so standard PAL is 25FPS, but half vertical resolution PAL is “50FPS”. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you call it 50FPS (as seen from game’s perspective, not the PAL spec as GP implied). > And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate This is incorrect. It would be correct if you said “full field rate” here. The PAL standard is 50 fields per second. Two fields comprise one fram…

You should consider editing the downvote comment away. Wasn't from me, and my advice is to just ignore all that. I do. Yes, that article is right about the timings. The signal standards were abused in small ways to improve graphic quality, get speed and more. Similar things happen in NTSC land too. Those deliver 60 fps. Many TV sets will permit further abuse and deliver NTSC with more PAL like timings to get 50fps, b…

> This is why many, particularly those who grew up during retro times, will say PAL 50fps. To them, PAL does in fact deliver 50 complete frames per second.

That doesn’t make it correct, but I agree now in retrospect and thus edited my post.

(Also, agree re: intro part to your reply. The problem I have is when factually correct comments without anything wrong about them get greyed out)

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#102

Post by ddingus »

jsjohnst wrote: post #91
ddingus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For broadcast programs, yes. The NES, and many other early computer/game systems, don't bother sending an interlaced display. Basically, they omit the half scan line at the end of one frame that positions the next frame lines in between the prior frame. That's what 288p is. And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate. 50fps Pal, intended for viewing movies, television broadcast does output t…

Ok, so standard PAL is 25FPS, but half vertical resolution PAL is “50FPS”. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you call it 50FPS (as seen from game’s perspective, not the PAL spec as GP implied). > And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate This is incorrect. It would be correct if you said “full field rate” here. The PAL standard is 50 fields per second. Two fields comprise one fram…

BTW, some contributors to that forum thread are incorrect about interlace being about the number of scanlines.

Interlace requires there be one half scanline.

Whether there are an odd or even number of scanlines can impact color phase shifting, depending on whether the source signal is phase shifting the color burst.

Older machines, such as the 8 bit Apple 2, did not phase shift at all so color artifacting would be predictable and useful. Even vs odd scan lines would affect precise frames per second only.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#103

Post by lillesvin »

kibwen wrote: post #81
lillesvin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the Castlevania games (maybe Symphony of Darkness?) achieves ACE by inventory manipulation. Mega Man 1 has an ACE category as well which is really interesting. I think Nudua explained it somewhere. (On my phone, but a quick googling should help you.)

Right, the Castlevania: Symphony of the Night one is also excellent, and I know for sure it has a GDQ demonstration.

Oh, right, it's "Symphony of the Night". I thought "Symphony of Darkness" sounded off but I couldn't for the life of me remember the correct name.

Edit: Btw, the aforementioned explanation of how to do the Mega Man 1 Credits Warp (through ACE) can be found here: https://nudua.com/mm1/

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#104

Post by jsjohnst »

ddingus wrote: post #102
jsjohnst wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so standard PAL is 25FPS, but half vertical resolution PAL is “50FPS”. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you call it 50FPS (as seen from game’s perspective, not the PAL spec as GP implied). > And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate This is incorrect. It would be correct if you said “full field rate” here. The PAL standard is 50 fields per second. Two fields comprise one fram…

BTW, some contributors to that forum thread are incorrect about interlace being about the number of scanlines. Interlace requires there be one half scanline. Whether there are an odd or even number of scanlines can impact color phase shifting, depending on whether the source signal is phase shifting the color burst. Older machines, such as the 8 bit Apple 2, did not phase shift at all so color artifacting would be pr…

I agree, wasn’t using that link as a justification for anything besides the math for the FPS on the NES (which seems correct to me).

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#105

Post by dragontamer »

marvin wrote: post #77
xg15 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then, some of the timing accuracy required still mystifies me. E.g., if I got it right then, for the RNG manipulation to work, you have to press "A" on the menu screen in one particular frame , counted from when the console was switched on. At the standard PAL framerate of 50 FPS, this gives you 1/50th of a second to react, with no visual indicator that the frame you're looking for is about to come up. I have no…

There are some cues you could use to get very close, particularly the rhythm of the music. I've heard that a decent drummer can hit a note within 15 milliseconds of the mathematically correct point on average, and that makes it plausible that you could use rhythm as a cue to hit within the 20 milliseconds that this would require. But obviously this would become less likely to succeed as the length of the game continu…

Fighting game players regularly hit 1/60th of a second frame links.

For example, Guilty Gear XX's "one frame jump" is required to escape some pressure strings. This requires one-frame precision (1/60th of a second), pushing "Barrier" on frame 3.

If you push Barrier on frame 1 or 2, you're grounded and won't jump. If you push Barrier on Frame 4, it doesn't make a difference (because your character's animation is the same by frame 4). Its literally a 1-frame button timing.

Street Fighter IV had a fair number of 1-frame combos as the bread-and-butter for many characters. These 1/60th of a second links may be character specific (since all enemy hitboxes change based off of their relative sizes). They're also position dependent, because wall-bounce vs corner combos are a thing in most fighting games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIXuOx8WbFU

Most people, with enough practice, can execute this. Just most people don't realize that they can. This isn't even elite musician level.

Now what the expert fighting game player can do, is do the 1-frame link reliably during a tournament while the crowd is yelling and overall in a distracted environment.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#106

Post by vga805 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #30

Here is Mitch Flower Power performing the glitch on live TV in 2016 with Stephen Colbert: https://youtu.be/jvLwpnn1F4Y I believe Mitch was the first person to do this trick in RTA.

In addition to how good Mitch is, he's also one of the nicest people around. I recommend his twitch if you wanna watch him speedrun, these days he's grinding SMB 3 10% with a crazy hammer bros. manipulation.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#107

Post by ddingus »

jsjohnst wrote: post #101
ddingus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should consider editing the downvote comment away. Wasn't from me, and my advice is to just ignore all that. I do. Yes, that article is right about the timings. The signal standards were abused in small ways to improve graphic quality, get speed and more. Similar things happen in NTSC land too. Those deliver 60 fps. Many TV sets will permit further abuse and deliver NTSC with more PAL like timings to get 50fps, b…

> This is why many, particularly those who grew up during retro times, will say PAL 50fps. To them, PAL does in fact deliver 50 complete frames per second. That doesn’t make it correct, but I agree now in retrospect and thus edited my post. (Also, agree re: intro part to your reply. The problem I have is when factually correct comments without anything wrong about them get greyed out)

Ignore it. Over time you get thicker skin, handle exchanges better[1], as I did here, and your net upvotes go up

Yes, not worrying about it improves it. Strange world sometimes, isn't it?

[1]not saying you are bad. No judgment here. And that's the point. I basically don't do judgment and treat you the same way whether I see upvotes or not. That really improves things.

And again, it is just advice.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#108

Post by ddingus »

jsjohnst wrote: post #104
ddingus wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, some contributors to that forum thread are incorrect about interlace being about the number of scanlines. Interlace requires there be one half scanline. Whether there are an odd or even number of scanlines can impact color phase shifting, depending on whether the source signal is phase shifting the color burst. Older machines, such as the 8 bit Apple 2, did not phase shift at all so color artifacting would be pr…

I agree, wasn’t using that link as a justification for anything besides the math for the FPS on the NES (which seems correct to me).

Was for passers by mainly.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#109

Post by rockostrich »

crazygringo wrote: post #18

That's absolutely insane. Manipulating the state of the game world so that its data maps to instructions to complete the game, and then glitching in a way that executes it. The only thing I'm not clear on: even knowing exactly what you're doing... how likely is it that you could pull this off in real-time? Did the player have to do this 10 times? 100? 1,000?

They have to do it a bunch to build the muscle memory, but once they have it they get pretty consistent. For instance, dannyb21892 just recently broke the WR for any% in Zelda OoT 2 times in one stream and the run includes similar precision to do ACE.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#110

Post by iaw »

crazygringo wrote: post #18

That's absolutely insane. Manipulating the state of the game world so that its data maps to instructions to complete the game, and then glitching in a way that executes it. The only thing I'm not clear on: even knowing exactly what you're doing... how likely is it that you could pull this off in real-time? Did the player have to do this 10 times? 100? 1,000?

That player goes by the moniker "MitchFlowerPower" and has performed that 'speedrun' live in a race with Stephen Colbert to eat a hot pocket [0]. It definitely is not a trivial procedure but humans can get pretty consistent at it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvLwpnn1F4Y

Post reply on HN