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Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

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Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#91

Post by jsjohnst »

ddingus wrote: post #85
jsjohnst wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the standard PAL framerate of 50 FPS, this gives you 1/50th of a second to react PAL is 25FPS, no?

For broadcast programs, yes. The NES, and many other early computer/game systems, don't bother sending an interlaced display. Basically, they omit the half scan line at the end of one frame that positions the next frame lines in between the prior frame. That's what 288p is. And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate. 50fps Pal, intended for viewing movies, television broadcast does output t…

Ok, so standard PAL is 25FPS, but half vertical resolution PAL is “50FPS”. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you call it 50FPS (as seen from game’s perspective, not the PAL spec as GP implied).

> And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate

This is incorrect. It would be correct if you said “full field rate” here. The PAL standard is 50 fields per second. Two fields comprise one frame.

Now as to the NES specifically, this link breaks down more precisely the game’s FPS (tl;dr, it’s neither PAL or NTSC’s frame or field rate exactly):

https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=492

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#92

Post by kibwen »

ducktective wrote: post #72

ahhmm clears throat This wouldn't have happened if they used Rust ;)

If there's one thing that makes me regret pushing Rust, it's this. :P Although fortunately, physics engines in any language will always have exploitable, memory-safe bugs that make for great speedruns.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#93

Post by ducktective »

chrismorgan wrote: post #88
ducktective wrote: post #72

ahhmm clears throat This wouldn't have happened if they used Rust ;)

The reason you get these sorts of bugs is not because of the languages used, but because of the tight constraints, most notably the limited amounts of ROM and RAM available. You simply couldn’t code such a thing in safe Rust. If you wanted to make cartridges like this with Rust, there would be a lot of unsafe code, and you’d get just the same bugs. Put another way: if you said, “you wouldn’t get this if you wrote it…

yeah I was joking :D...Designers had to use assembly...

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#94

Post by nicetryguy »

dane-pgp wrote: post #4
zamadatix wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 0 exit speedrun for Super Mario World uses pretty much the exact same method (koopas and all) as well https://www.speedrun.com/smw/run/y65xp50z SMB3 also has an interesting tool assisted speedrun (non-human doing the inputs) where fast inputs on the second controller cause an overflow on the input buffer allowing for the game to be beaten basically instantly from the start screen. If you like this because of the…

An A press is an A press. You can't say it's only a half.

Well, TJ "Henry" Yoshi, hear me out. An A press actually has 3 parts to it: When A is pressed, when A is held, and when A is released. Together, this forms one complete A press.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#95

Post by fernandotakai »

striking wrote: post #16
devindotcom wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why the community has specific categories for different runs. I appreciate glitched runs because of the acumen needed to accomplish them but it's 100% runs that truly impress me most as a gamer. The speedrun world is almost like a scholarly domain, with all the usual bickering about terminology, whether this qualifies as that, and so on. I would be interested to read an ethnology of the community.

> The speedrun world is almost like a scholarly domain, with all the usual bickering about terminology Right. Like the most recent 100% runs of Ocarina of Time[1], which use glitches to obtain items early and break the sequence of the game, while still obtaining every item from its source eventually making them still legitimate 100% runs. You'd think "100%" and "glitchless" were synonymous, but they're not anymore! 1…

>You'd think "100%" and "glitchless" were synonymous, but they're not anymore!

they never wore! it all depends on the community definition. you can have 100% glitchless and 100% with glitches. or you can have both have the same category. it all depends on what the runners define.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#96

Post by mumblemumble »

dane-pgp wrote: post #4
zamadatix wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 0 exit speedrun for Super Mario World uses pretty much the exact same method (koopas and all) as well https://www.speedrun.com/smw/run/y65xp50z SMB3 also has an interesting tool assisted speedrun (non-human doing the inputs) where fast inputs on the second controller cause an overflow on the input buffer allowing for the game to be beaten basically instantly from the start screen. If you like this because of the…

An A press is an A press. You can't say it's only a half.

tl;dw version of the video's explanation:

A full A press involves both pressing and releasing the button. If you press the button during one level, hold it down, and then release it during another, then only half of the button press can be counted against each level. Otherwise you'd be double counting it.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#97

Post by chongli »

andi999 wrote: post #62
e1ghtSpace wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 16 is the total amount of successes using this method.

So same succes rate as playing FTL regularly?

The FTL world record for winning streaks on hard no pause with random ships is ~30 or so. If you want to see how consistent people can get at the game, watch some of the more talented FTL Twitch streamers such as the_farb, DolphinChemist, NecroRebel, or Scottonesiewilson. They regularly have winning streaks go up into the double digits.

The only ship no one seems to be able to win consistently is the Stealth B. That makes sense, though, because starting with no shields and the very slow glaive beam makes for a very difficult start.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#98

Post by chrismorgan »

ducktective wrote: post #93
chrismorgan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you get these sorts of bugs is not because of the languages used, but because of the tight constraints, most notably the limited amounts of ROM and RAM available. You simply couldn’t code such a thing in safe Rust. If you wanted to make cartridges like this with Rust, there would be a lot of unsafe code, and you’d get just the same bugs. Put another way: if you said, “you wouldn’t get this if you wrote it…

yeah I was joking :D...Designers had to use assembly...

One of life’s pleasures is taking jokes seriously.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#99

Post by ani-ani »

thret wrote: post #78

I was thinking someone should write a story on the premise that we are living in a simulation, where 'glitches in the matrix' like déjà vu, coincidences, freak accidents, etc., are due to accidental arrangements of people corrupting the program... but then I realised someone already had. In El ángel exterminador (1962) a group of people are trapped in a single room (level) due to their accidental seating arrangement.…

I saw El ángel exterminador and it was great, but I don't think it hints at any simulation. The phenomenon does not really need any literal explanation, but if I had to provide one, I would rather suggest a mystical occurrence or entity such as the "angel" hinted by the title, somehow triggered by the characters, and the seating solution may be a way of telling the humans to stay in their place.

Re: Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3 Minutes – World Record Speedrun Explained [video]

#100

Post by ddingus »

jsjohnst wrote: post #91
ddingus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For broadcast programs, yes. The NES, and many other early computer/game systems, don't bother sending an interlaced display. Basically, they omit the half scan line at the end of one frame that positions the next frame lines in between the prior frame. That's what 288p is. And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate. 50fps Pal, intended for viewing movies, television broadcast does output t…

Ok, so standard PAL is 25FPS, but half vertical resolution PAL is “50FPS”. Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you call it 50FPS (as seen from game’s perspective, not the PAL spec as GP implied). > And the result is half the vertical resolution but at full frame rate This is incorrect. It would be correct if you said “full field rate” here. The PAL standard is 50 fields per second. Two fields comprise one fram…

You should consider editing the downvote comment away. Wasn't from me, and my advice is to just ignore all that. I do.

Yes, that article is right about the timings. The signal standards were abused in small ways to improve graphic quality, get speed and more.

Similar things happen in NTSC land too. Those deliver 60 fps. Many TV sets will permit further abuse and deliver NTSC with more PAL like timings to get 50fps, but still with NTSC color encoding.

An Amiga and Color Computer 3 can both do this. It is correct to do in some parts of the world too. I have done it in video signal projects.

Whether my comment is incorrect depends on POV.

From the NES pov, and how gaming generally thinks of frames, its fine.

From the signaling POV field is more descriptive.

Consider when there is no interlace, what happens to the concept of a field? There aren't any. Just frames, as in one complete image completely displayed.

Many people think in simple frames per second terms. This is why many, particularly those who grew up during retro times, will say PAL 50fps. To them, PAL does in fact deliver 50 complete frames per second.

Edit, oh yes! I do see where I should have said field early on. Too late to edit now. Basically, when the half scanline is not part of the signal output, fields go away.

When it is, there are fields and they get displayed sequentially, interlaced fashion, one full frame displayed every two fields.

Cheers!

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