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Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

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141–150 of 214 posts

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#141

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

> Enjoy the smell for the remaining time period

You know, from the community's perspective, your comment could come off as incredibly self-centered and entitled. Why is it the community's responsibility to dispose of endless amounts of waste that you and your little poop monsters produce? All of those services require the community to do work for you.

The social contract is more maleable than you realize. I am not sure you want to accept that it can be renegotiated because like most of us, you've accepted an entire lifetime's worth of Western programming telling you you get to do whatever you want and everybody else has got to just deal with it, and if they have a problem with that then it's some kind of horrible encroachment.

But the reality is that people have always lived in communities that have a delicately negotiated social contract and ways of shaming, shunning, and even ex-communicating individuals who don't conform. The social contract is a negotiation, not your absolute right to do whatever you want and have people clean up after you.

> Alas, people who are annoyed by this leave.

I'd say that's WAI. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun to live there. So don't. I probably wouldn't either. But TBH it's not a lot of fun to live next to trash monkeys and junk hoarders, and communities absolutely do kick such people out.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#142
post #115

I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.

Actually your kind of thinking is backwards. Nowadays nuclear energy is the most expensive way to produce electricity: Nuclear energy: 102£/MWh Gas energy: 85£/MWh Offshore wind energy: 57£/MWh Onshore wind energy: 46£/MWh Solar energy: 44£/MWh https://www.carbonbrief.org/wind-and-solar-are-30-50-cheaper...

Cost in dollars is not related to negative externalities, i.e. whether something is environmentally friendly. In fact, often completely the opposite!

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#143
post #137

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

>E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. Do you have any source for that? I find it fascinating, but was not able to find any link about this, only that the student dorm does not have "bio"-dumpsters for compostable garbage.

https://youtu.be/rdUuJk-nDyk

It’s the most televised segment about Vauban. It takes some time until it gets to the trash bins. You have to get passed the segment of the professor talking about „communal self-Control“ if a neighbor dares to open his windows, because of the ecological burden said neighbor would unload on others. But the whole thing is worth watching.

Edit: It’s around minute 10.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#144
post #92

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

It's a cultural thing. Some people can't imagine living wihout a car, others can't imagine using disposable diapers, others can't imagine not forcing women to wear a veil. Or, for example, is your trash production a private affair, or is it a communal responsibility, subject to scrutiny? If you're flexible you can set up your outlook however you think is best. And there are of course prevailing mindsets, depending on…

> not forcing women to wear a veil

How the fuck does THAT fit with the other examples you gave? The word "force" in there should make it pretty clear that it's not ok or just a matter of opinion.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#146
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pee? ... and I know the technic and I know it requires more time. And the people I know applying it .. were only partly succesfull. With the result of shit around. And pee.

Obviously for pee it is the same. Does not mean you have to do it everywhere. I would not get in an airplane without a diaper. And obviously western nursery does not work without it either. About accidents: And then what is more unhygienic? Feces, urine on the floor or feces, urine all around your bottom? For the first you can use almost any cleaning liquid you want, for the second even to much soap is not good.

Well, with poo it is quite easy. If you pay attention to your baby, you know, when he wants to, I can imagine it, doing without (we simply lacked the time).

But peeing he just do without warning. I would have to pay attention to him 100% the whole time - and this is not what I want or can afford.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#147

> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?

I can tell you that the kindergarten were my kids attended in Germany, they were against reusable diapers, because it generated more job to the the educators which were already overwhelmed.

That doesn’t prevent you from using them at home though.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#148
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cultural thing. Some people can't imagine living wihout a car, others can't imagine using disposable diapers, others can't imagine not forcing women to wear a veil. Or, for example, is your trash production a private affair, or is it a communal responsibility, subject to scrutiny? If you're flexible you can set up your outlook however you think is best. And there are of course prevailing mindsets, depending on…

> not forcing women to wear a veil How the fuck does THAT fit with the other examples you gave? The word "force" in there should make it pretty clear that it's not ok or just a matter of opinion.

> It's a cultural thing.

It was just another example of cultural behavior.

It was not a normative statement.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#149

> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?

Even the Amish use real nappies rather than messing around with reusables. Real nappies are better for baby and toddler bums, easier for already stressed parents and more hygienic. Reusables result in massive energy and water waste, they are a health hazard if not washed properly (many manufacturers washing instructions are very inadequate. They must be washed at a minimum of 60°C whatever your manufacturer said), re…

> Reusables [...] release loads of microplastics

Do people use synthetic reusable diapers? Why would you do that?

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#150
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>E.g. your amount of thrash you can dispose per month is highly regulated, via communal key-card opened dumpsters. Once you’ve reached your threshold, the dumpsters stay closed. Do you have any source for that? I find it fascinating, but was not able to find any link about this, only that the student dorm does not have "bio"-dumpsters for compostable garbage.

https://youtu.be/rdUuJk-nDyk It’s the most televised segment about Vauban. It takes some time until it gets to the trash bins. You have to get passed the segment of the professor talking about „communal self-Control“ if a neighbor dares to open his windows, because of the ecological burden said neighbor would unload on others. But the whole thing is worth watching. Edit: It’s around minute 10.

That says that you have to pay extra if you want to throw in more. Nothing about having to ask neighbors. There is also always the alternative of just buying a trash bag from the city and just filling that up.

The part about neighbors keeping watch over open windows however is hilariously dystopian. Especially given my own experience with passive buildings that completely failed to live up to the hype, with air circulation that was a health hazard..

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