Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest • Hacker News Board

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#121

Post by Krasnol » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 10:54 AM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #45

Krasnol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite hilarious to hear those phrases here every single time. No it's neither backwards, nor self-destructive and never was. Self-destructive behaviour is if you create waste you can't get rid of. Like in the case of Germany. Backwards thinking is when you hold onto an out of date technology democratic, western countries have dropped in favour of a new, cheaper and better technology [1]. And no, as a preemptive…

On every article in some way related to the environment vocal pro nuclear people on HN will appear. Germany is the lastest favourite example for spreading misinformation along with discrediting renewables with FUD.

Yes, this is really a terrible anti-intellectual thing here.

I wonder where this comes from. Is Shellenbergers propaganda bs so influential? Or maybe those failed efforts by billionaires like Gates to get hilarious amounts of cash from the Government?

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#122

Post by mistahenry » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 10:55 AM UTC

gautamcgoel wrote: post #17

I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.

Risk analysis requires accepting trade offs. I don’t think it’s so backwards or self destructive to not want the level of potential danger that a nuclear power offers in your backyard.

The reality is that many nuclear disasters have happened and not wanting to risk irreversibly destroying your land for many generations seems like a reasonable position to hold.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#123

Post by Krasnol » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 10:57 AM UTC

mihaaly wrote: post #49

Krasnol wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how the hate train starts rolling with all the same phrases that lack even the basic facts. Germany had a plan to get out of nuclear energy already in 2002 When Angela Merkel came into power, she rolled a part of it back. Allowing for some of the plants to run longer. After Fukushima, this was rolled back again.

Which part of the two sentences was hateful and what is not factual in those?

The whole thing paints Germany as some retarded country who didn't know what they're doing and now they need Russian gas.

All this neither having the dates right nor making a logical Russian gas connection. It's just a pure hate on Germany bs argument which appears all the time nuclear is the topic.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#124

Post by Krasnol » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #54

Aperocky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wondering if it got worse - if they did manage to build more nuclear plants like French did (75% from nuclear) instead of closing them all down, maybe Germany will be able to heat their homes without CO2 emissions in winter.

Well, in the past it might have been an option go build more nuclear power plants, but today it isn't. And that is for a simple reason: no one can afford to build new nuclear power plants. Take France: France really depends on nuclear energy and have a fleet of aging plants. They needed to be replaced, but France is not able to do that. They have a single power plant in construction, but it is overrunning costs by fa…

They not only don't build new ones, the'll close down 50% of them in favour of renewables:

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-france-nuclear-reactors-macron...

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#125

Post by campl3r » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC

pvorb wrote: post #10

Meandering wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear has a way of disarming logic.

I don't think it's unreasonable to fear nuclear accidents, as history has shown us.

Which history?

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#126

Post by tannhaeuser » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

woodpanel wrote: post #118

Fishysoup wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience with Germany / Switzerland as well. Very punishment-based

It’s the Alemannian heritage of pietism. The areas of Baden, the former state Freiburg was part of, and Swabia e.g. were for decades the only areas in Germany were the otherwise urbanite-higher-ed focused Green Party had success with rural/small town voters.

But pietism is associated with protestant/Lutherian christians whereas Baden is mostly catholic, isn't it?

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#127

Post by Krasnol » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:05 AM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #25

Aperocky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the city, Germany made the decision to shut down ALL of the nuclear power plants when Fukushima happened. Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas.

> Now they found they're dependent on Russian gas. They always were, maybe you don't recall the shortage in 2009 when Gazprom shut off the gas to Ukraine, which happened 2 years before 3/11 [0]. I jokingly asked if that's why they still kept their wood burning furnaces in the building I lived and why they made it a priority we knew how to keep the backofen going throughout the Winter months and while I got slight a c…

Since when does nuclear energy provide for heat?

PS. Russia has been delivering gas even in the worst days of the Cold War and your "joke" was insulting and is pretty much misplaced in the discussion here. They however probably still talk about the stupid 'murican who thought they'd run out of gas.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#128

Post by flohrian » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:15 AM UTC

nicky0 wrote: post #65

Do they still have the cool little water channels flowing through the city center streets?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_B%C3%A4chle

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#129

Post by woodpanel » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:19 AM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #126

woodpanel wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the Alemannian heritage of pietism. The areas of Baden, the former state Freiburg was part of, and Swabia e.g. were for decades the only areas in Germany were the otherwise urbanite-higher-ed focused Green Party had success with rural/small town voters.

But pietism is associated with protestant/Lutherian christians whereas Baden is mostly catholic, isn't it?

It has more Catholics but it’s still mixed. Besides pietism being of Protestant origin doesn’t stop you from being influenced by it, no less than Swiss Catholics are influenced by Calvinism or some Indian Muslims by the caste system.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#130

Post by neuronic » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

Fishysoup wrote: post #48

woodpanel wrote: post #43

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

This has been my experience with Germany / Switzerland as well. Very punishment-based

Yes, it's called social responsibility.

Vauban is very special and strange even for German eyes. But one thing is abundantly clear among many German communities:

The egocentric individualism where all the problems you produce are offloaded to some ephemeral society funded by taxes you don't want to pay is not sustainable unless you exploit external communities around you.