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Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

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Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#271

Post by [deleted] »

gumby wrote: post #237
fvdessen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was still not that long ago an incredible amount of innovative companies and products in Europe. But at that time companies were still built for their home markets first and on that regard the USA is big and unified. Since software is mostly winner takes all it means that when the USA companies came to Europe they had already won the USA and could steamroll the local competition There is for example no way a sw…

> There is for example no way a swedish mapping company could have competed with google maps Not Swedish, but Danish founders, working in Australia. Google purchased the company and made it google maps

[deleted]

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#272

Post by trabant00 »

lgleason wrote: post #69

"This high skills immigration is crucial to American competitiveness, global competitiveness, building these new companies and so forth," he said. "America does not have enough people with those skills." Translation -- US software engineer salaries are still too high for his liking, so he wants to dilute the market with more to lower the overall cost.

Even if this is what it translates to exactly, it still is not wrong. Funding is not without limits and you want to get most value for money spent.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#273

Post by dna_polymerase »

bluecmd wrote: post #214
emsy wrote: post #195

Tangential, since this article is about the US and China. But if the US has dropped the ball, then Europe (or the EU specifically) didn't even bother to go to the game. The only thing we're innovative at is coming up with regulations. And I say this as someone who thinks the US tech sector should be under much heavier regulatory scrutiny.

Since you mention regulation, I think it is something to be proud of. GDPR, Germany saying hell-no to forced Facebook accounts, etc. As for innovation? US isn't even top 10 when it comes to Nobel prize per capita ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_l... ). IKEA, SAP, Beretta, Airbus, Spotify, Linux, Prometheus, Grafana, Booking.com just from the top of my head of things that are proof of Euro…

GDPR is the perfect example for OPs point. The whole thing is just stupid, protects nobody and thought millions of people to just click on Okay on any modal they are presented with.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#274

Post by blfr »

jnathsf wrote: post #209
lgleason wrote: post #69

"This high skills immigration is crucial to American competitiveness, global competitiveness, building these new companies and so forth," he said. "America does not have enough people with those skills." Translation -- US software engineer salaries are still too high for his liking, so he wants to dilute the market with more to lower the overall cost.

That’s the cynical perspective. The flip side is that the US has traditionally attracted the best talent in the world. This class has gone on to win the most Nobel prizes and create the most valuable companies in the world. Focusing on a real negative externality (labor arbitrage) fails to recognize the immense benefits skilled immigrants bring to this country. I’m a son if one of them. My dad came this country in th…

The real innovation largely stopped soon after your dad came to the US (although it probably wasn't his fault!) and in the time of massive, society-changing levels of immigration, not seen since the 1920s. The model of immigrants causing innovation and xenophobia holding it back simply doesn't match observation.

Something interesting happened in the early '70s and it deserves a much better explanation https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#275

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

ma2rten wrote: post #38

I am not sure what he is talking about. I work on AI/Machine Learning and I can't think of any major paper that came out of China.

Out of curiosity, can you please define "work[ing] on AI/Machine Learning"?

On your actual point (sorry for the digression) many machine learning papers have at least 2/3s of authors with Chinese-sounding names, though affiliated with US institutions (or companies). Maybe no major papers have come out of "China", but they sure have come out of the work of Chinese citizens.

China has increased its research output and impact in recent years. The AI Index report has a plot:

https://hai.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ai_index_2019_r...

You'll have to go to page 19 to the pdf for the section titled "Published papers: Citation impact by region" which shows Field-Waited Impact by region and over time- sorry, I can't see a way to link directly to the page.

Other plots in the sam report also paint a similar picture: China is revving up its research engine on AI.

I see this as a missed opportunity. Most Chinese researchers are and were trained in US and UK institutions. Unfortunately, instead of making sure to forge strong bonds of friendship and collaboration that would hold after the return of those students and researchers to China, the US at least has chosen to see them as a threat, so the effect is that they've basically been training their competition. The UK is a bit more on the fence about it for now.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#276

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

emsy wrote: post #195

Tangential, since this article is about the US and China. But if the US has dropped the ball, then Europe (or the EU specifically) didn't even bother to go to the game. The only thing we're innovative at is coming up with regulations. And I say this as someone who thinks the US tech sector should be under much heavier regulatory scrutiny.

I don't know how to judge general innovation but it should be noted that in AI at least, Europe has been the major contributing region since 1990. See the AI index report 2019:

https://hai.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/ai_index_2019_r...

Sorry I can't link directly to the plot. Go to page 16 in the pdf, a section titled "Published papers: AI Papers by Region".

In short, Europe has been the region with the most output in AI research in the last 30 years with US second and China initially at third place, but overtaking the US around 2006 ish and finally Europe in 2018.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#278

Post by irrational »

88840-8855 wrote: post #248
fvdessen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was still not that long ago an incredible amount of innovative companies and products in Europe. But at that time companies were still built for their home markets first and on that regard the USA is big and unified. Since software is mostly winner takes all it means that when the USA companies came to Europe they had already won the USA and could steamroll the local competition There is for example no way a sw…

I like your points and agree on your conclusion. Further, I would like to add a few ideas: - innovation in Europe can only scale if we achieve a higher degree of unity in Europe, including one common language, one common jurisdiction and law framework. Localization is just too expensive in Europe and hinders scaling. - a certain degree of protectionism is good. I am a big fan of how China made it. They have a really…

What could the one common language be? English would seem to be the logical choice, but there is no way France would agree to that.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#279

Post by barry-cotter »

533474 wrote: post #206
lgleason wrote: post #69

"This high skills immigration is crucial to American competitiveness, global competitiveness, building these new companies and so forth," he said. "America does not have enough people with those skills." Translation -- US software engineer salaries are still too high for his liking, so he wants to dilute the market with more to lower the overall cost.

And let the brain drain go to Europe or China instead?. Or is it statistically possible that the best innovators and skilled individuals are only born in the US? I do not mind a little competition if we bring people who might improve our technological edge. China is going to surpass the US eventually and oh lord, we are in denial!. This is my opinion, I am not claiming to know the absolute truth or facts.

> And let the brain drain go to Europe or China instead?

A lot of things would need to change for that to happen. Switzerland naturalizes more people every year than the PRC has ever naturalized and the Swiss are not known for making joining their nation easy. Shanghai, the richest city in China, has a GDP per capita on par with Poland last I checked and the country as a whole is ranked 96th, a bit above Thailand. The EU isn’t that attractive either. Germany is poorer than all US states but Mississippi. Money isn’t the only thing when it comes to brain drain but it’s a big, big thing.

A European long-term resident of China.

Re: Ex-Google boss Eric Schmidt: US 'dropped the ball' on innovation

#280

Post by irrational »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #273
bluecmd wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mention regulation, I think it is something to be proud of. GDPR, Germany saying hell-no to forced Facebook accounts, etc. As for innovation? US isn't even top 10 when it comes to Nobel prize per capita ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_l... ). IKEA, SAP, Beretta, Airbus, Spotify, Linux, Prometheus, Grafana, Booking.com just from the top of my head of things that are proof of Euro…

GDPR is the perfect example for OPs point. The whole thing is just stupid, protects nobody and thought millions of people to just click on Okay on any modal they are presented with.

Sort of like the “this product will cause cancer in California” warnings on just about everything to the point that they become meaningless?
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