Why do so many people want us back in the office? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#191

Post by ergocoder » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:32 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #177

Outside of the pandemic, I think a company doing remote/WFH carries with it some implications people don’t seem to talk about - namely that your physical workspace and equipment used is capital, and the company is not compensating employees for the use of that capital. If a company does not need to maintain office space, that is a huge expense they don’t have to pay for - but an employee is paying for it. Right now y…

IMO, this is one of the least concerning things with WFH.

It's just another trade off. That isn't hard for many people who prefer working from home.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#192

Post by tima11234 » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

gordaco wrote: post #141

x87678r wrote: post #124

My commute is 20 minutes on an uncrowded ferry, and my home office is a tiny desk in my daughter's bedroom while she works on the other side on school stuff. My colleague has a massive house with a pool tennis court and so much space he has literally 3 never-used bedrooms. His wife looks after kids who are at school most of the day again. His commute is 2 hours each way. People are talking home vs office people are c…

Yeah, I agree. I miss my old routine too. I even have a dedicated office of sorts, and working from home is comfortable and convenient to me. But... I miss the commute. The bus I used to take wasn't particularly uncrowded, but I always managed to get a seat (thanks to having a particularly early schedule) and I used to take the opportunity to read (since each trip took about 40-45 minutes, that's about 1h30m of readi…

People need to adapt. Just because you can't seem to figure out how to read a book now or listen to pod casts because you only did those things when forced to commute, isn't a good argument against WFH.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#193

Post by ConcernedCoder » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #140

I would be in favor of a number of working arrangements, ranging from working in a Bay Area office full-time(least favorite) to working from home most-time in an area that provides me with the chance to buy a home and have a reasonable commute to a satellite office. I am absolutely, 100% against full-time WFH in an expensive, low-quality(no sound/thermal insulation) Bay Area apartment without a dedicated workspace. >…

Yeah, I don't know about working from "anywhere in the world"... I'm sure there's places without good internet, etc... that would make that difficult or impossible.

I can say one thing about it after being 100% WFH for 2+ years now, I can set my alarm clock, to wake me up exactly 1 hour before my morning video conference "standup" meeting, and still have time to wash-up, make coffee, watch the markets open, be properly awake and caffinated to participate in the meeting, etc...

Previously, depending on the total commute time, I would need to set that same alarm perhaps 2 hours or more in advance... the stress of the commute aside, I was getting less sleep on average, and in my line of work ( programming ) sleep is valuable to me, it helps me think better than when tired.

I feel more rested, healthier, happier, less stressed, and I know my productivity has INCREASED over the alternative in-office scenarios...

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#194

Post by weeksie » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #138

weeksie wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've identified it. We're talking about productivity gains, so that accountant gets as much done as they did before, minus the commute time. At a bare minimum, that's doing 8 hours of work in 8 hours, versus 8 hours of work in 10 hours, or whatever your commute is. People who drive (most people) cannot usually perform economic activity during their commute. Better yet, maybe that accountant figures that they really…

I think the economy and productivity and everything else that makes economy and work tick are way more complex than your simplification to no commute = massive gains for economy, companies and happy new future for everybody is coming. I see it in abundance in every single discussion here and elsewhere - people who hate commute but for whatever bad/stupid reason ended up far far away and were wasting hours every day o…

Try to give a generous reading, we're speaking in short paragraphs on the internet. My argument was that a shortened commute is a real productivity increase. That's one of any number of hypotheticals that depend on industry by industry specifics.

If you'll read the thread all the way through, you'll notice that I'm a big fan of offices. I think the issues you and mattlondon raise are real—fitness, mental health, etc.—but those are temporary issues since people will eventually start going back to the office.

We will gain because through this experience, many firms will discover efficiencies from remote work and be able to apply them in a judicious way when things are back to normal.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#195

Post by nottorp » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

There are about three problems with the current forced WFH situation:

1. People simply aren’t used to it yet. The self discipline part, knowing when to work... and when to stop too.

2. You do need some sort of dedicated space. I’ve been working from home just fine for 20 years but I have a separate room for that.

3. Especially in tech, management may not have the knowledge to judge productivity. Measuring time the chair is filled in the office is much easier than evaluating a developer’s work based on just what they do.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#196

Post by woodson » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

aspaceman wrote: post #173

maneesh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if your job can be done from home, it can be done from anywhere in the world > I will call anyone's bluff who says this. Do it. Good luck. If you haven't successfully done this already, there is a reason and you know it. Welp, I'm the CEO of a smart wearable device company ( https://pavlok.com ). We were based in Boston because everyone told me, and I believed you HAD to be in one place to build a startup, and DEF…

I can’t even with this comment. Not everyone has the resources to make a working place anywhere viable. You seem to have the resources to make a hotel in Budapest or whatever work. Talking so causally about international travel already puts you beyond most Americans’ income. So yeah it is very, very easy for folks with a job like yours, and with the resources you’re afforded, to work anywhere. The issue isn’t proximi…

Staying at AirBnBs in the listed cities and working from there is quite likely cheaper than renting office space in Boston (probably even including airfare). So it’s not about “resources” as in money, it’s about being able to be productive working from all these places, especially when taking into account the time zone difference to other members of the team.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#197

Post by tingol » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

aspaceman wrote: post #173

maneesh wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if your job can be done from home, it can be done from anywhere in the world > I will call anyone's bluff who says this. Do it. Good luck. If you haven't successfully done this already, there is a reason and you know it. Welp, I'm the CEO of a smart wearable device company ( https://pavlok.com ). We were based in Boston because everyone told me, and I believed you HAD to be in one place to build a startup, and DEF…

I can’t even with this comment. Not everyone has the resources to make a working place anywhere viable. You seem to have the resources to make a hotel in Budapest or whatever work. Talking so causally about international travel already puts you beyond most Americans’ income. So yeah it is very, very easy for folks with a job like yours, and with the resources you’re afforded, to work anywhere. The issue isn’t proximi…

Don't be daft, an average US salary will get you an above average life almost anywhere else in the world.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#198

Post by tima11234 » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:39 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #177

Outside of the pandemic, I think a company doing remote/WFH carries with it some implications people don’t seem to talk about - namely that your physical workspace and equipment used is capital, and the company is not compensating employees for the use of that capital. If a company does not need to maintain office space, that is a huge expense they don’t have to pay for - but an employee is paying for it. Right now y…

Remote work at tech companies isn't something completely new, it just wasn't the norm. The good companies compensate employees for internet and hardware.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#199

Post by x87678r » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

saos wrote: post #14

Yeah I’d like to go back but 2 days a week. Any more and it’s over kill really. 3 other days can be used for deep work at home. I’m tech guy working in marketing...these type of people love to appear at your desk every so often in the office. Now with Slack I can just not sign in or set my status as away and reply when I want. It’s asynchronous communication and really good for “me”. And truth is. Everyone is differe…

Is that everyone the same 2 days a week? Because its a problem if everyone chooses different days you still can't get those interactions.

Re: Why do so many people want us back in the office?

#200

Post by cmwelsh » Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #147

mattlondon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not so sure productivity has definitely improved. I agree there was a good head of steam where people were able to quietly and independently work through their "list" of stuff they wanted to do for ages but never had the chance to etc, or whatever had previously been planned out. Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to…

Now months later I feel like things are starting to grind a bit and productivity is starting to wane because the "pipe" is starting to dry up. My employer mandated a return to the office about 2 weeks ago. Productivity has declined compared to when we were all WFH for 6 months and I have the stats - pull requests, builds pushed to prod, tickets opened, all are down.

Is it possible that folks substituted their commute for extra work hours? There’s really not much to do, socially, when everything is locked down. Some people might take it as a chance to be a workaholic (with the possible burnout not in mind). In the office, I am pressured by folks walking by into leaving “on time” (they don’t realize I often start later than them).