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VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

finance.yahoo.com

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#11
post #5

I thought people in SV are paid what they're paid because they're uniquely qualified and productive, making their employers extremely profitable, or salable. Is that no longer true when they don't sit in a SV chair?

It’s funny: I don’t know where people get the idea that people are paid based on the value they produce. People are paid based on the amount they command in the labor market, and labor markets are local (and if they produce less value than they command, there’s no hire). It works like nearly every other economic transaction. Engineers cost more in the valley because there is far more competition to hire them, not because they are unilaterally better or more qualified. (Not to say there isn’t a lot of great talent in the valley, but I’m sure there’s lots of talent outside the valley as well.)

I’m not sure if your comment was sarcastic or not, but this is an extremely common misunderstanding. It often comes up when people discuss CEO salaries (“do they really work YYY times harder than entry level staff?”, as if people are paid based on how hard they work).

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#12
post #5

I thought people in SV are paid what they're paid because they're uniquely qualified and productive, making their employers extremely profitable, or salable. Is that no longer true when they don't sit in a SV chair?

It’s funny: I don’t know where people get the idea that people are paid based on the value they produce. People are paid based on the amount they command in the labor market, and labor markets are local (and if they produce less value than they command, there’s no hire). It works like nearly every other economic transaction. Engineers cost more in the valley because there is far more competition to hire them, not bec…

Labor markets aren't local when everyone can work from home. That's why this kind of move is absurd. Talent outside the Valley might be willing to take lower pay, based on lower cost of living, but just like everything else the price of their labor shouldn't be based on the cost to produce it.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny: I don’t know where people get the idea that people are paid based on the value they produce. People are paid based on the amount they command in the labor market, and labor markets are local (and if they produce less value than they command, there’s no hire). It works like nearly every other economic transaction. Engineers cost more in the valley because there is far more competition to hire them, not bec…

Labor markets aren't local when everyone can work from home. That's why this kind of move is absurd. Talent outside the Valley might be willing to take lower pay, based on lower cost of living, but just like everything else the price of their labor shouldn't be based on the cost to produce it.

Labor markets are still local until we have widespread remote working. That’s not the case yet. I’m sure companies remote compensation will become competitive in the all remote market as it evolves, whatever it turns out to look like.

I think the word “absurd” is an inappropriate description, which is just the company behaving rationally.

> just like everything else the price of their labor shouldn't be based on the cost to produce it

This is another misunderstanding. Nothings price is fundamentally based on the cost to produce it — that only happens for commodities in competitive markets. The cost of labor is based on supply & demand. And that’s different today in different places.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#14

So they are cutting payroll costs in a down economy. VMWare is just using this excuse because they think their workers will tolerate it. HR is a cold calculation, and people forget HR's primary (and second and third) priority is to serve the company.

You are suggesting HR is amoral but in fact they are actually evil.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#15
post #4
post #2

As someone who lives near Pittsburgh with a reasonable salary and knows what Silicon Valley/NYC salaries are usually, I am not that upset about it.

worth adding (numbeo comparison): https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

I once negotiated with an employer that tried to use these exact kinds of cost-of-living stats to compute an adjusted "matching" offer to an offer from California. But it's a bad deal because those high california prices are "paying" for very desirable benefits like nice weather and job opportunities. These differences are not considered when "living" is treated like a commodity where the only stat to compare is cost.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#16
post #5

I thought people in SV are paid what they're paid because they're uniquely qualified and productive, making their employers extremely profitable, or salable. Is that no longer true when they don't sit in a SV chair?

It’s funny: I don’t know where people get the idea that people are paid based on the value they produce. People are paid based on the amount they command in the labor market, and labor markets are local (and if they produce less value than they command, there’s no hire). It works like nearly every other economic transaction. Engineers cost more in the valley because there is far more competition to hire them, not bec…

While I agree that there is dissonance between value produced and salary paid, but your argument doesn't seem to hold as well.If higher competition drives salaries upwards then the salaries should increase in a remote worker economy as worker pool is not bound to a geographical locality but rather to the whole planet(or at least a larger region if culture or timezone differences are major concerns). Economics of demand and supply is much more complicated than we could reduce to a liner or so about competition or a few factors. Increased base living costs for the employees combined with the larger availability of capital with the employers probably plays a major role here.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#17

This one is a tough problem. On one side, I am in support of Silicon Valley pay being distributed across the entire US instead of being concentrated all in one place. On the other hand, I don't like economies in small localities being disrupted because one person ends up getting a pay SO MUCH higher than majority of his neighbors for from revenue that is not sourced from the employee's home town. Maybe the market sho…

An argument for higher corporate and (progressive) personal income tax rates.

This is the most depressing, dystopian desire.

Taxes are necessary to fund shared infrastructure and services. They're not supposed to overtly punish success or prevent people from earning a high salary.

There's an argument that high earners can (and possibly should) pay a higher share of taxes because they have the most ability to do so, but you seem to be just advocating taxing away people's earnings out of a jealous desire to not see anyone have more than you.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An argument for higher corporate and (progressive) personal income tax rates.

This is the most depressing, dystopian desire. Taxes are necessary to fund shared infrastructure and services. They're not supposed to overtly punish success or prevent people from earning a high salary. There's an argument that high earners can (and possibly should) pay a higher share of taxes because they have the most ability to do so, but you seem to be just advocating taxing away people's earnings out of a jealo…

I wouldn't assume jealousy as a motive for this. Plenty of high earners call for less income inequality.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An argument for higher corporate and (progressive) personal income tax rates.

This is the most depressing, dystopian desire. Taxes are necessary to fund shared infrastructure and services. They're not supposed to overtly punish success or prevent people from earning a high salary. There's an argument that high earners can (and possibly should) pay a higher share of taxes because they have the most ability to do so, but you seem to be just advocating taxing away people's earnings out of a jealo…

Progressive taxes do not disincentivize success.

They also don't tax high earners more. They tax the high end of high salaries more.

In other words, I pay the same amount of taxes on the first $50k of earned income as a ceo pays. We both pay the same rate on the next $50k, and so on. Then, he may pay a higher rate for that last $3m he earns. Seems completely fair to me.

In reality, he has a lot more resources and power to tax plan his income, so he will likely pay a lower effective tax rate than me anyway. So taxing the higher incomes, if anything, is needed to keep things fair.

But regardless, assuming those higher income brackets aren't taxed at an extremely high rate, no one is declining higher salaries or choosing to earn less because it will be taxed more.

Re: VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley

#20
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

worth adding (numbeo comparison): https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

I once negotiated with an employer that tried to use these exact kinds of cost-of-living stats to compute an adjusted "matching" offer to an offer from California. But it's a bad deal because those high california prices are "paying" for very desirable benefits like nice weather and job opportunities. These differences are not considered when "living" is treated like a commodity where the only stat to compare is cost…

Exactly. If I'm going to forgoe the great weather, I need some of that "excess living expenses" to make up for it with tropical vacations and maybe a nicer car or something.
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