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I don’t have time for coding challenges

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Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#211

Post by shajznnckfke »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #210
shajznnckfke wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever it is, it would lead to a reduction in pay, which you suprisingly support - that amounts to walking into your boss' office and asking for a pay reduction. I just think it’s useful to try to understand the effects of policies not just on me, but on society at large. For example, I might observe that a tax increase hurts me personally but helps others. Are you saying that instead I ought to come up with reas…

Currently there seems to be no mechanism increasing construction workers' wages or lowering rent. The extra profits are kept, and society isn't better for it (if it were, I'd be all for it like you). The reasons for this are fundamental, partly explained in an economics class, partly the result of imperfect markets and practicalities (a rich landlord might not immediately go out and build new real estate that would l…

In areas absent density restrictions, the US is indeed great at building tons of housing, developers don’t make huge profit margins, and rents are low. Is your argument that society would be better off if there were less construction workers, so housing costs would go up, allowing each remaining worker to be paid more and less total homes to be built? My opinion is that the higher wages for construction workers are nice, but they don’t nearly make up for the undersupply housing (we see both of these phenomenon in the Bay Area - higher wages for construction workers, who still can’t afford a home themselves).

You argued that software isn’t good for the world, so society wouldn’t benefit from more of it. This is a perspective I don’t usually get (especially here on HN) and I’m interested in hearing more. My belief is that software is part of a centuries-long trend of technology/productivity advances that have brought billions of people out of poverty, the continuance of which is necessary (although not sufficient) for a post-scarcity utopian future. I don’t know if we will ever invent a replicator, but I think more software engineers increase the odds!

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#212

Post by thiht »

johnfn wrote: post #149
autarch wrote: post #50

> "I’m writing this as an interviewee, having never been on the other side of the interview table ..." > ... > "Most candidates will have side-projects or work they’ve done for previous employers." As someone who has actually done a lot of interviewing, I can say with great confidence that this is simply wrong. At my current employer, we have a "homework assignment" as part of the interview process. We tell candidate…

Them: "We've got a coding challenge for you..." Me: "I've got this repo on Github with millions of downloads and 10k stars. It's at least 20k lines of my own code. Would that be good to demonstrate my coding ability?" Them: "Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us. Please do the test instead." Me: "Fine." Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. Clearly that shows I have no idea how to code. That wa…

> Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us

What's funny is that it's literally their job. They receive money for doing it.

Doing a take home is not paid. I have no idea why these recruiters assume it's ok to ask candidates for multi hours work without any kind of compensation.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#213

Post by andreareina »

johnfn wrote: post #187
golergka wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. OK, I'm honestly curious here. What was the request, and why did you make such a decision? Do you think it is the right approach in this case, or that it's an insignificant mistake that does not represent a person's understanding of HTTP protocol? I remember hearing about at least one story where using GET instead of POST lead to disastrous consequences, as…

I was definitely in the wrong about GET/POST. The company I had previously worked for simply didn't really care too much about getting the verbs right, so I didn't really fret about them. And the company I'm currently at (multiple thousands of employees, strong engineering culture if I dare say so myself) just does everything as a POST. So it really is somewhat cultural whether you care about GET/POST or not. But, IM…

Google Places API puts the key in a query parameter. Still don't know how I feel about that.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#214

Post by [deleted] »

cameronh90 wrote: post #194
johnfn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was definitely in the wrong about GET/POST. The company I had previously worked for simply didn't really care too much about getting the verbs right, so I didn't really fret about them. And the company I'm currently at (multiple thousands of employees, strong engineering culture if I dare say so myself) just does everything as a POST. So it really is somewhat cultural whether you care about GET/POST or not. But, IM…

For E2E encrypted APIs, one could well argue that worrying about HTTP verbs is just wasting time for no good reason. POST (consistently) lets you attach a body too. Just using POST for everything is a pattern I've seen becoming more popular recently.

[deleted]

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#215

Post by chrisandchris »

cameronh90 wrote: post #194
johnfn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was definitely in the wrong about GET/POST. The company I had previously worked for simply didn't really care too much about getting the verbs right, so I didn't really fret about them. And the company I'm currently at (multiple thousands of employees, strong engineering culture if I dare say so myself) just does everything as a POST. So it really is somewhat cultural whether you care about GET/POST or not. But, IM…

For E2E encrypted APIs, one could well argue that worrying about HTTP verbs is just wasting time for no good reason. POST (consistently) lets you attach a body too. Just using POST for everything is a pattern I've seen becoming more popular recently.

No we can get into an endless argument whether verbs are abused or not...

IMHO, GET (as of today) gas the issue that it does not support a body. If I‘m executing a search (an idempodent action), how can I nicely pass a JSON object configuring the search? I‘ll just use POST for that... So then we‘re at the point where the url does not work anymore because we have a POST /findEmployee; POST /findContract; ... instead of GET /employee and GET /contract.

Maybe I‘m wrong here, but it doesn‘t like nice in my eyes using POST in that way.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#216

Post by ProZsolt »

JackC wrote: post #87

I like the coding challenge we designed for hiring where I work. A few things about it that work: - It's designed to take about the same time as the round of interviews it replaces (half a day), and we clearly communicate how polished and complete we're expecting it to (not) be in that time. - It's a lot like the actual work; if you enjoy it / are good at it, there's a good chance you'll enjoy / be good at the job. I…

I like coding challenges, they way better (less stressful) than whiteboarding. Just don't use it as a prescreen. Interviews (should) work both ways, coding challenges only testing the candidate's abilities. I'm only willing to do them once I know I want to work at your company.

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#217

Post by ProZsolt »

zebnyc wrote: post #150
JackC wrote: post #87

I like the coding challenge we designed for hiring where I work. A few things about it that work: - It's designed to take about the same time as the round of interviews it replaces (half a day), and we clearly communicate how polished and complete we're expecting it to (not) be in that time. - It's a lot like the actual work; if you enjoy it / are good at it, there's a good chance you'll enjoy / be good at the job. I…

a) Do you compensate folks who take these challenges. Otherwise it is half a day of unpaid labor. Also most take home tests take way longer even though they are advertised as "only a couple of hours". Do you have empirical evidence that it can be completed in the given time slot? Have you given the test to your own colleagues who may not know the background / domain knowledge / environment setup required? b) Do you m…

Not OP, just a job seeker who like coding interview.

> Otherwise it is half a day of unpaid labor.

The same true for an interview

> Do you have empirical evidence that it can be completed in the given time slot?

As a candidate once you see the specification and you think it's not worth it you can easily can say no to it.

> Is there a guarantee that an actual person will review the submitted code and provide feedback? AFAIK, most companies won't give candidates any feedback / validation of submitted work

That is why I only willing to do these kind of challenges once I had the first round of technical interview and I know I would like to work there

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#218

Post by edanm »

johnfn wrote: post #149
autarch wrote: post #50

> "I’m writing this as an interviewee, having never been on the other side of the interview table ..." > ... > "Most candidates will have side-projects or work they’ve done for previous employers." As someone who has actually done a lot of interviewing, I can say with great confidence that this is simply wrong. At my current employer, we have a "homework assignment" as part of the interview process. We tell candidate…

Them: "We've got a coding challenge for you..." Me: "I've got this repo on Github with millions of downloads and 10k stars. It's at least 20k lines of my own code. Would that be good to demonstrate my coding ability?" Them: "Haha, no, that'd be too much work for us. Please do the test instead." Me: "Fine." Then they rejected me because I used GET instead of POST. Clearly that shows I have no idea how to code. That wa…

That's absurd.

Also- thanks for VScode vim! I use it and love it. I've always wanted to reach out cause there's lots of features I wish would get implemented. Though even without those it's one of the better vim emulations I've tried, and I've tried many!

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#219

Post by _v7gu »

chrisandchris wrote: post #215
cameronh90 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For E2E encrypted APIs, one could well argue that worrying about HTTP verbs is just wasting time for no good reason. POST (consistently) lets you attach a body too. Just using POST for everything is a pattern I've seen becoming more popular recently.

No we can get into an endless argument whether verbs are abused or not... IMHO, GET (as of today) gas the issue that it does not support a body. If I‘m executing a search (an idempodent action), how can I nicely pass a JSON object configuring the search? I‘ll just use POST for that... So then we‘re at the point where the url does not work anymore because we have a POST /findEmployee; POST /findContract; ... instead o…

The JS API's I used to develop in used a mix of query strings (for exact matches) mixed with JSON (for more complicated queries) all in the url parameters

Re: I don’t have time for coding challenges

#220

Post by ProZsolt »

cyrux004 wrote: post #112
ijidak wrote: post #106

What I love (sarcasm) is companies that just need basic line of business apps, but want you to complete a coding challenge navigating graphs and trees in constant, nlogn time, etc. I find it hilarious and often ask, "Can you explain to me how solving this challenge applies to what you do day to day?" They say.... "That's a really good question..." Then I watch them squirm as they have no idea how to explain a real wo…

how about "we found a strong correlation between who can complete coding challenge do well on the job. We understand that correlation doesny imply causation; but we and the majority of the industry havent found anything better yet. We also understand that we are potentially missing out on good candidates who dont generally fare well in coding challenge; but thats a trade off we are ok with"

If you are FAANG and you have sea of candidates applying for any job position, that's fine. But if you are a small company please don't cry afterwards that there's not enough qualified developers out there.
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