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Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#201

Post by 8ytecoder »

bmarquez wrote: post #114
sizzle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this is why my next phone will be an iphone, so sick of apps in Android play store pestering me to rate their app after completing an action in the app or forcing me to turn on location services when I can easily enter a zip code instead.

> forcing me to turn on location services when I can easily enter a zip code instead This exists on iOS too. I recently downloaded a wardrobe app that refused to let me select clothes for hot or cold weather unless I turned on location services. Also some fast food apps (either Burger King, Popeye's or Taco Bell...can't remember which one) constantly whine about location services off and introduce extra friction to t…

iOS 14 has an option to share location without being precise - pretty much like sharing zip. A lot of apps ask for location and I deny and enter my zip. In fact it was one of the major reasons I switched years ago.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#202

Post by jsgo »

austhrow743 wrote: post #121
dayjobpork wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise Apple could still do this in their app store AND allow 3rd party app stores?

Not to the same effect. It means if developers don’t want to play by Apple’s rules they don’t have to completely surrender the iOS market. A big enough name could just direct users to the third party App Store.

I'm not certain here. for the users that want the on the rails experience that Apple currently provides like the OP (seemingly), they'd still be able to do so. Meanwhile, someone that wants to download apps that wouldn't pass muster with the App Store rules (such as game streaming apps and, yes, Fortnite with Epic's payment system) would still be available to iOS users that would want them (personally speaking, would love xCloud and GeForce Now clients and would be willing to "unlock" the capability in Settings to do so if given the option).

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#203

Post by danShumway »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #9
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

Full text of the clause: > 3.2.2 Unacceptable > (vi) Apps should allow a user to get what they’ve paid for without performing additional tasks, such as posting on social media, uploading contacts, checking in to the app a certain number of times, etc. Apps should not require users to rate the app, review the app, watch videos, download other apps, tap on advertisements, enable tracking, or take other similar actions…

I find that policy entirely acceptable, for the same reasons I think shrink-wrap EULAs should be illegal. This makes me curious about Apple and iOS / OS X. Does Apple try to require that the user accepts an EULA for the OS after buying Apple hardware?

It's a very good policy, I wish they'd follow it for their own systems.

To download free apps off the Mac app store I need to set up an account and provide Apple with an email address, physical address, and phone number. Apps like the Wireguard GUI don't have access to necessary system APIs outside of the app store, so the developers have no way to allow users to sidestep giving Apple that information.

I'm forced to use the command line interface from Brew and mess around with network interfaces on my work laptop just because I refuse to give Apple my phone number and home address, even though Wireguard is free and no billing/payment information would be required for me to download it, and even though having an Apple account is completely unrelated to their sandboxing goals or the information that the app needs to run.

Bonus points for telling me I'm providing my phone number "for security purposes" but providing no option during signup to use a secure 2FA app instead of SMS.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#204

Post by jariel »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #9
Nextgrid wrote: post #3

Full text of the clause: > 3.2.2 Unacceptable > (vi) Apps should allow a user to get what they’ve paid for without performing additional tasks, such as posting on social media, uploading contacts, checking in to the app a certain number of times, etc. Apps should not require users to rate the app, review the app, watch videos, download other apps, tap on advertisements, enable tracking, or take other similar actions…

I find that policy entirely acceptable, for the same reasons I think shrink-wrap EULAs should be illegal. This makes me curious about Apple and iOS / OS X. Does Apple try to require that the user accepts an EULA for the OS after buying Apple hardware?

"I find that policy entirely acceptable"

There's a difference between policies that we agree with, and policies that should be policy.

I think in this context, the real policy should be regulatory, and it shouldn't allow Apple to even have such a policy or forbid anything.

Apple should be allowed to discriminate in their own garden, and/or to rate or group apps based on various factors.

So an app that 'requires social sharing and to make a review' receive a negative quality score ranking etc. - but otherwise - 'informed users' can make their own choices.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#205

Post by jariel »

Apple's policies are starting to read like governmental regulatory documents, and their internal process like an opaque, private Judicial system.

This is not good for us in the long run.

We need a new version of the FCC that's smart enough to engage lightly for the most part, but heavily and smartly where necessary in this new digital age.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#206

Post by cblconfederate »

sbuk wrote: post #104
cblconfederate wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple profits from knowing their users' app/music/news/books/siri etc preferences and making purchase suggestions, don't they?

That's not quite the same as selling that information to political 'think tanks' to buy influence in an election.

That's kind of besides the point. Could this info be e.g. passed to US authorities if requested? Is it being used for nefarious purposes? We don't know.

At least in EU (and thus all apps made in EU) you can ask for personal info to be deleted. The list of apps downloaded is certainly sensitive info that reveals many preferences. Can you ask apple to delete this info?

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#207

Post by sbuk »

cblconfederate wrote: post #206
sbuk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite the same as selling that information to political 'think tanks' to buy influence in an election.

That's kind of besides the point. Could this info be e.g. passed to US authorities if requested? Is it being used for nefarious purposes? We don't know. At least in EU (and thus all apps made in EU) you can ask for personal info to be deleted. The list of apps downloaded is certainly sensitive info that reveals many preferences. Can you ask apple to delete this info?

Under the GDPR it is permitted to keep PII, resposibly, if that PII is used for conducting normal business, which should ideally be anonymised. Arguably, apps that you have downloaded from an online store fall under this category. You can close an AppleID, thereby deleting donload info, but you'll lose access to the apps that you have purchased, including IAPs. There is absolutely a discussion to be had around that, but that's moot with regard your point. Asking Apple to delete the info about app purchase history is self defeating. A better question to aim at Apple is to ask if the data is anonymised. The same is true of Google Play.

See https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#208

Post by MrScruff »

jsgo wrote: post #202
austhrow743 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to the same effect. It means if developers don’t want to play by Apple’s rules they don’t have to completely surrender the iOS market. A big enough name could just direct users to the third party App Store.

I'm not certain here. for the users that want the on the rails experience that Apple currently provides like the OP (seemingly), they'd still be able to do so. Meanwhile, someone that wants to download apps that wouldn't pass muster with the App Store rules (such as game streaming apps and, yes, Fortnite with Epic's payment system) would still be available to iOS users that would want them (personally speaking, would…

The issue with that is that you would end up with the balkanisation of the app delivery method as we have with PCs. You would end up with hundreds of 'stores' which act as the exclusive distributor for that vendors products.

One workaround could be permitting additional stores, but insisting that anything available on the additional stores must also be submitted to the Apple store. If Apple rejects it, that's their right but the software can still be made available through the third sideloading.

Of course this would also need to be behind a big 'UNSAFE MODE' lock because it would be an obvious target for malware.

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#209

Post by cblconfederate »

sbuk wrote: post #207
cblconfederate wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of besides the point. Could this info be e.g. passed to US authorities if requested? Is it being used for nefarious purposes? We don't know. At least in EU (and thus all apps made in EU) you can ask for personal info to be deleted. The list of apps downloaded is certainly sensitive info that reveals many preferences. Can you ask apple to delete this info?

Under the GDPR it is permitted to keep PII, resposibly, if that PII is used for conducting normal business, which should ideally be anonymised. Arguably, apps that you have downloaded from an online store fall under this category. You can close an AppleID, thereby deleting donload info, but you'll lose access to the apps that you have purchased, including IAPs. There is absolutely a discussion to be had around that,…

> You can close an AppleID, thereby deleting donload info

That's not what GDPR requires. I am sure Apple has a way to request to delete sensitive info such as app purchases without loss of service, or else they d be in violation in EU.

> to aim at Apple is to ask if the data is anonymised.

I can't see a way in which my app purchases could be anonymized (then it wouldn't be personal information)

Re: Apple: Apps should not require users to opt into tracking to access content

#210

Post by cschep »

danShumway wrote: post #203
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that policy entirely acceptable, for the same reasons I think shrink-wrap EULAs should be illegal. This makes me curious about Apple and iOS / OS X. Does Apple try to require that the user accepts an EULA for the OS after buying Apple hardware?

It's a very good policy, I wish they'd follow it for their own systems. To download free apps off the Mac app store I need to set up an account and provide Apple with an email address, physical address, and phone number. Apps like the Wireguard GUI don't have access to necessary system APIs outside of the app store, so the developers have no way to allow users to sidestep giving Apple that information. I'm forced to…

Put in fake data and move on with your life?
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